Betrayal. Both sides.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Yep its allways the little ones who cop it in the neck and have the least control over whats happening, deprived of a stable upbringing from two loving parents.It allways saddens me to hear when a family unit is torn to shreds.It is little wonder we are increasingly living in such a dysfunctional society.I would like to know what is the main factor that causes these breakdowns, is it monogamy ( that old gem pushed on society by the church) at fault here ?Is it financial woes, because we are all living so far beyond our means in this modern age?Perhaps we all need to get back to basics (as a society).Cheers Nev.....feeling a little depressed now

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Agree that this can be devastating, particularly on the first occasion. Some animals bond for life and if their partner dies... they never find another. This can happen too with humans when the love is so strong and a couple are true soul mates. I know of one case. But mind sets do vary and attachments become less secure by accident or design. The notion that love and sex are partners of passion and are inseparable is the convention. Though on this site we encounter people with alternate lifestyle ideas. Faithful so far as bonded as a couple yet entertaining others for variety. The feeling of rejection can be most devastating to the soul, feeling used when your devotion has been dismissed. So its a fine balancing trick in the swinging world to not be hurt and welcome your partner's enjoyment whether it be with you or an arranged other. People have so many secret fantasies and not everyone gets to realise them. These secrets can exist within a couple and none is the wiser if there is a communications breakdown. Not every partner is game to share their innermost thoughts, particularly when they are of a sexual fantasy nature. Some are too shy whilst others border on deceit. People also change with time as their needs, expectations and fulfilment vary. The person you met ten years ago may not be the same person now. When you're whole being is fractured in the way you describe, you are likely to exhibit the same emotions as experienced with a loved one's death... such as sadness, anger and grief. Except that they are still living and often the subject of your retribution if there is no hope of a reconciliation. Letting a hopeless situation go may be hard... but it is the best release. Hope rests in learning from the experience and avoidance of the same mistakes if that is at all possible. But then the statistics for successful second and third marriages is not all that promising. The saddest part is the unfortunate impact on the children. Yet I have seen some remarkably well balanced offspring result from failed marriages... so all is not often lost.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Yeah yeah.. .all cheaters are bastards .... there's no excuse, but it happens. I'm sure we aren't meant to be monogamous forever, yet we promise to marry forever. Which promise, if broken, hurts more? I'm mature enough to accept that as our relationship ages, our urges can also develop and sometimes in different directions. As we mature we can discover things about our sexuality that we didnt know existed or were previously unexplored and frankly these things ought to be explored, even though marriage is meant to be for life... a life is incomplete unless it has been lived!    Sometimes we grow apart and if it happens to you that your lover has cheated, then you get to choose what to do about it, if anything. You get to choose what is best for you in your particular circumstances. We should take less notice of the advice of conventional wisdom and all those bitching friends we surround ourselves with. They have their own agendas, likes and dislikes and prejudices.    For some, it means the end of the relationship and for others, well, they might suffer on.. or they might learn from it and the relationship continues, abeit bruised and battered, but not necessarily any less passionate or loving.   I have always given my lover the freedom to choose her course. I rely entirely on her judgment not to let me discover anything that she may do in her private life that will hurt me (read that again.. it's her life, not mine)... lmfao... fortunately I well informed that women are very cunning and for that I am eternally greatful. However, I also have a developed sense of empathy so in 25 years of marriage I have needed a good sense for when not to ask.. and when to turn my back. In all realtionships there will be a time when you will need to find a compromise that works for you both, because rigid rules will not survive eternally, I think.   Men are obviously clutzy cheaters but with some training, we make great stalkers and peeping toms and that's obviously why so many men watch while their ladies get to play. :p Of course, you'd have to tie me to a chair or something... but I suspect I'd enjoy that ... hehe... err... that is, if I ever did such a thing... which I didn't.... I mean, wouldn't of course. Deny Deny Deny. :p Yeah, I think I'm getting the hang of this, Soph.   Hugs Stalky<<<<  Love to all the rhp peeps.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  It is a serious issue and betrayal is truly an awful thing to have to face, but so, considering the pain betrayal cause, should cheating really continue to be so reviled when it is something so many people do? Shouldn't our attitude to cheating soften, even just a little?    A website in the US geared towards people in partnerships wanting to cheat now has 4 million users. Who are they? All scum-sucking bastards and sluts? 4 million of them?? What about all over the rest of the globe? Every second movie I see has someone cheating on someone, every second book I read....    That’s a lot of people to revile and hate… let's add a couple of celeb cheaters from recent history, too, shall we? David Letterman, Tiger Woods, Balthazar Getty, Billy Crudup, Brad Pitt, Claire Danes, Eddie Cibrian, Jude Law, LeAnn Rimes, Tiger Woods, David Duchovny, Hugh Grant, Eliot Spitzer, Bill Clinton, Lance Armstrong, John Edwards… and the list goes on and on and on…   I personally can count about 10 couples I know who have split over cheating… (counting my parents and grandparents, too, so pretty personal). I agree that cheating is devastating in our culture today… which is why it is my opinion that our cultural opinion on cheating needs to change… We should be more accepting and forgiving, for our own sakes, our partner's sakes, our children's sakes.    Monogamy is often an unattainable goal… and where does cheating start? In the mind? Impure thoughts? In front of internet porn? Impure actions. Flirting with the girl in your office? Lunch? Holding hands? Kissing? Penetration? I have heard it said that cheating is anything that you wouldn’t feel comfortable telling your partner you’d done… and I agree with that… and I say… no one needs to know every single detail of what we do or don’t do, not even our partners… there is a European proverb that states “what the eye doesn’t see, the heart doesn’t grieve over” so perhaps it's better not to look! Don’t sneak around in other people’s letters and emails and pockets and glove compartments and pc’s if you’re already convinced you’re going to be unhappy with what you find. Some people, men and women, are hell bent on discovery because they, too, are unhappy...    Perhaps we need to start putting cheating in a different perspective. If you look at the culture in France, or in Japan, infidelity rates are extremely high but divorce rates are extremely low. It IS more culturally acceptable.   The partners of people who cheat often need to feel partly accountable as well (and of course I am not talking about situations of abuse or that all partners should stay together. I'm divorced, and not because of cheating but because I married the wrong man... it happens!! No one should stay in a relationship they are unhappy in, for any reason). People cheat for lots of different reasons but unhappiness and lack of communication and good old fashioned lack of sex are always pretty high on the list! Most of us are driven by nature to spread our genes through mating. We are driven by carnal (and natural) urges to procreate.   Somewhere down the line, society decided that sexual activity should be limited to one partner. It isn’t naturally so… society invented monogamy and it has caused no end of trouble and heartache. New research indicates that NO biological being that we know of is truly driven to monogamy, humans included. For social reasons, we have evolved to view monogamy as the norm and promiscuity as abnormal but when it comes down to science we are driven to mate.   It has also been found that "dopamine levels rise during sex (duh), yet dopamine levels rise even more when sexual activity occurs for the first time between new partners (aka lust and sparks). This leads to the obvious conclusion that sex with multiple partners leads to higher levels of dopamine throughout and in theory a happier, more content creature. Is this nature's way of telling us that sex with multiple partners is right? ‘Cheating' is an inevitable consequence of biological drives which as one researcher put it 'cause dopamine spikes seen only in heroin addicts when shooting up"   How can being with just one person be right when these drives and urges are so strong? And the incredibly high levels of infidelity show that it can't in fact be right... and they show it pretty clearly.   So, in summary, this will be a pretty unpopular opinion probably... but it isn't in fact a justification for cheaters... just my thoughts that perhaps we need to re-think if what we are asking for (life-long fidelity) is actually a realistic, obtainable goal. And the fact that there are literally millions of "cheaters" in the world makes me think that it just isn't.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Indiscriminate sex and reproduction will eventually cause complications should half siblings unknowingly end up mating and reproducing. Take the reproduction aspect out of the equation and one problem is solved. Another problem is that of nurturing children... should we ever move away from the conventional family structure. Various indigenous cultures evolved solutions then our western culture with Christian missionaries and syphilitic sailors spoilt paradise.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Now wouldn't that be nice!  But even then Eunuch, everyone had very structured roles to play and then where would equality between the sexes go ;)   I know this is a sex site, but I think that a point that a lot of people are missing is that there are many forms of betrayal that can hurt people and destroy families - not just sexual infidelity.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Quoting 'eunuch'Indiscriminate sex and reproduction will eventually cause complications should half siblings unknowingly end up mating and reproducing. Take the reproduction aspect out of the equation and one problem is solved. Another problem is that of nurturing children... should we ever move away from the conventional family structure. Various indigenous cultures evolved solutions then our western culture with Christian missionaries and syphilitic sailors spoilt paradise. Hey there Eunuch... is this a reply to my post? Because I'm not actually advocating indiscriminate unprotected sex. That might be a bit silly in the world today, health wise. Nor was I encouraging a move away from conventional family structure... although that is already happening... take just my family... I have a step-grandfather, a step-grandmother, a step-mother, a step-father and five step-brothers and sisters. On numerous family occasions, some or all have been present at the same time. It's an interesting example of a modern extended family who certainly have cause to have some individual issues with each other but overcome them for the sake of "family". They inspire me.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  hey customer 69 i can fully sympathyse with you atm im just over a 10 year relation ship where the same thing happened to me and the person it has hurt the most is my little girl sorry to hear it happens so much :(

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Wow that poses a challenge for the genealogists compiling the family tree... and if this is a growing trend then the charts are going to get very complicated. There there's another trend of young girls getting pregnant and burdened with a brood of children by different fathers. One town I lived in was part rural, part lower socioeconomic urban and the rest middle class. These young woman were leaving school before gaining a proper education, then living off support. They were really kids raising kids alone with the help of mum. Can only guess the quality of life they and their kids can look forward to. The pity is that this may become self perpetuating generation after generation. None of this has anything to do with marriage... and I wonder how many youths have sired children with multiple females? They do it because they can... often abrogating all responsibilities. The ones that are on the dole are not in a position to provide support for their diverse offspring... if in fact they keep track of them. Now truth be known this has been going on for centuries, though not all ages or cultures have been tolerant of unmarried women. As much as you are the product of an extended family... it does sound like a family. My maternal great grand mother was left destitute with a dozen kids by her drunken wayward husband. She survived by taking in a boarder who then sired another four. Her original brood were left in a home when it got too much, when the two started the new family. Some people have a rough trot, and its not always of their making. How nice it would be to have a culture with flexibility to handle all these contingencies whilst still providing an upbringing filled with love and opportunities. Each and every one should be able to reach their full genetic potential. We just needs a practical framework to allow this to happen and not be a drain on the taxpayers. Please pardon me and my soapbox.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  I apologize to  Rose_Tattoo for hijacking this thread... but I must say thank you to Eunuch for reminding me that I've been terribly lucky in life, that even though I've been surrounded by divorce and cheating and betrayal and my fair share of challenges, I've always been loved and encouraged and taught that education and open-mindedness are so very important. And I do often forget or lose sight of the fact that not everyone has the same opportunities or the love and support that I've had. I feel suitably chastened.

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Hey sophie:   I am one of them bastards.. a dirty scum sucking piece of shit cheater... well, I was..   Anyone watch "Lord of War" with nicholas cage? "quote" "at the age of 4 1/2 months, the human foetus has a tail! It is the remnants of a revolution! And that is the THING: you can fight an enemy all day, and be victorious, BUT, if you try to fight your biology, you can NEVER win" "Unquote"   My long time partner and myself separated, and I was reluctant to get into a Normal sexual relationship again, because I understood I COULDNT be faithful.   Then, waaay out in the scrub, I met a woman, and became close.. I was still reluctant, and then, one night, she said something like... "you know, your choice man, BUT, to me, it is us, right here, taking our current relationship to another level of acceptance and understanding." She went on to tell me she was leaving the area in a month or so, and we would not be seeing each other again and wanted us to get to where we were going - together, out where we met, and where we were destined to meet.   I mulled that over, and we fckd!! and babies, it was fckn GOOD! out in the scrub like they do it on the discovery channel... *smiles*  in waterholes, on cliff faces, on the side of the road, in hidden away ponds and creeks.. often in plain view of tourists, IF they cared to look.   Not a brag.. just a point of interest... I used to tell my ladies I was faithful, then, I realised... "I am not!!" I can't be! I am not sure now I even WANT to be!   So, lets look at it.. We meet people - For a reason! For a season! For a lifetime!   Now, poor Sophie (sorry to pick you girl... :) ) finds herself locked into a situation so draining and so dismal, that she cant see her way out, meets me one evening by accident at the lookout at Gordons leap at Mt Gambier, and gets us talking together.. !!! hours into the night... about a thousand things.. music, philosophy, animals, the stars, the past and the future, the love of humanity, and the anguishes of relationships.... We slip into each other, and FCK!!! good sex.. it is the culmination of and evening of her "Reason"   Then we part... I go onto another beauty spot, Sophie goes home to her man.. reguvenated? relieved? satisfied? BUT.. stronger, because she has gotton a tonne of shit of her liver!! :) BAAAD GIRL!!!! Cheater!! scum of the earth!!!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not at all..   Now, IF i was living in her town, or close by, and she kept seeing me, for a month, or two.... Is she any worse??? I dont believe so!! I was her "Season"   BUT, then, we stopped fckng.. and kept in touch.. forever...... is she wrong this time?? No way.. I was her "Lifetime"   I do that well!!!! I DONT do relationships!! I WONT promise you fidelity! I WONT marry you! I WONT judge you!   MAYBE some of us are supposed to be just that... Someones "reason", "season",  "lifetime" BUT NOT someones partner!   Percentage wise, how many mammals are monogamous??   oooops!!! I rambled didn't I :)   cheers all! Kman

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Quoting 'cavey50'  MAYBE some of us are supposed to be just that... Someones "reason", "season",  "lifetime" BUT NOT someones partner!  beautifully said

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  RHP User

  15 years ago

  Cavey, your insight, as highlighted by FB_couple, is what comes with the experience of men that are our age. Well, not all of us, but you are very articulate and clearly a thinker which stands you apart. Being a man of the wilderness :p, you also have a lot of time for thought... :p   I was married 25 years ago. I can honestly say that I know a lot more about myself now, than I did back then... and even after all that, I still love my wife. :p We've grown together.  That is, we have both grown. This increased self awareness we share might differ but it should not have to mean the breakdown of our marriage. THat's why I think it's important to keep matters of sex and matters of love seperate. They're really two different things. I can love someone and not ever have sex with them.   Hugs Stalky

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