M53
Chivalry, Yea or Nay
March 13 2014
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
I think all the men should stand on the bus so that the women can sit down.
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RHP User
11 years ago
And don't find it patronising IF ... ... and only IF he is because he wants to be NOT because he feels he has to be
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RHP User
11 years ago
I love chivalrous men and have had the great fortune to know many. I love doors being held open for me, I love good old fashioned manners. I recall whenever walking down the street with my Dad he always walked on the road side of the footpath, when I asked why he explained it was so my dress wouldn't get mud splashed on it from passing horse & carts (and no I'm not that old). I think it shows respect and care. I'm a feminist and would like to think I behave as a lady and treat gentleman as gentlemen too. I also happily hold doors open for men. And I recall daily bus trips when heavily pregnant when only women would stand to offer me their seat and the majority of men blatantly hid their noses in their books/papers.
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Mischeviouslad
11 years ago
E + C + T = Chivalry..... where E is empathy, C is consideration and T is thoughtful actions. It's no big deal, just positive humanity DG - Posted from rhpmobile
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Mischeviouslad
11 years ago
Note the formula doesn't include A, for agenda - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I agree with DG that chivalry with agenda or expectation is not pleasant, but genuine, natural chivalry is lovely. Funlover, I think it's a fine balance. OTT chivalry, such as standing up when a woman enters the room, seems a bit silly. But chivalry that's about assisting someone is perfect. I also don't think chivalry needs to be an act limited to men. I frequently offer my seat, open doors, carry bags etc for others, men and women.
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On_Safari
11 years ago
And it's something I look for in my encounters with people from all walks of life, age, sex, demographic. Manners without agenda are sexy and Funlover your post, whilst full of humour; does not represent the man behind the words. You are a gentleman 100% thank God I'll never shag you though because that may be where your halo slips significantly (which btw could also be interesting!!) ~ Lil Sis
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'IllBloUrFnMinds' The knights code of honour lives! Let's face it. Us men are fucking silverbacks, and some also double as domesticated gents :-D For every woman that begrudges a door opened for them with no expectation of thanks, there's a woman that doesn't. I'm into women's lib, and if I don't get flowers bought for me she's out the door! Women, yes you, did you or did you not drool over Heath Ledger in A Knight's Tale. Did you? what every he likesI love it, all of it.and it shits me when I see women go fuck you when guy offers a seat on the bus or train. men would like to do this, but the fear that some woman will say piss off I got this, puts them off. I always say thanks of a guy does something for me. especially if he offers me a seat on his lap
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RHP User
11 years ago
Yeah, I know equalist isn't a real word, but it fits my thoughts so I'm happy to use it. Chivalry as a concept shouldn't be gender specific! I'm chivalrous every day in many ways. I don't expect it of anyone else but appreciate it when offered (by men and women). I don't think I should be entitled to extra courtesy because I have a vagina anymore than Mr should get other privileges because he has a penis. People are people and we should all show and be shown the same kindnesses. Kisses J (Mrs) - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's just gestures of respect, no? If you're my guest, my friend, my companion, my family, my senior, my junior or just look like you've had a hard day, then you deserve some "ECT". Or maybe I need to get more agenda.
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madotara69
11 years ago
For the elderly, I try to pay respects by showing care they would be accustomed too, an old man, he is treated as a gentleman without question, an old lady, the lady she is. My wife, she is special, how I remind her, is of habit and will never change. Everyone else, as I would a friend until otherwise. Though there is much more too it all? Mado Mado Tara xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
Looks like it's unanimous, Basic respect goes a long way. I hope you are standing and kowtowing receiving this info. Having met you, I know you would. Kerb side.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Kowtowing. Uugh. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Open a door , help across a road, pull a chair out , offer a helping hand i have done it all because i love when the lady appreciates your good gesture gives you a wonderful big smile and a heart felt thank you . Seriously . To give a lady a seat on a bus or let her take a load off ?? No fucking way you will get a fat ass keep standing .!!!! - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I think it's great if it's second nature for them to act this way. I like it when men hold a door for me or offer me their seat on a bus and I will always thank them and be gracious, whether I accept or not. (I do the same for others and really don't think this behaviour should be gender specific, but I'll stay on topic.) What does annoy me is when a man makes a nice gesture just that little bit grander to make sure I notice how chivalrous he is being. Pulling out my chair with a face that says: See what I just did for you? Or pulling out a wallet a little too exaggerated. Guys, I know when chivalry is real and when it's studied, and I think a lot of women do. And: I think chivalry is about offering, not taking over or deciding for the other person. Offering a hand when crossing a busy street: Awesome. Grabbing me by my arm: Patronizing. I'm not your child. Just don't.
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RHP User
11 years ago
holding doors open well if I'm the first one trough it and some one is following I will hold it open regardless of sex its just manners to not let it slam in some ones face ( all thought it would be funny at first ) Dad always said to me to respect women so I do Mum always said treat others how you would like to be treated so I do its life and good manners to treat every one with respect
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chevtrek
11 years ago
Women want equality yet want chivalry.There is no balance its the same with loveand money as those who have moneynever really have true love.I have noticed that women who are actlike women get chivalry but those whowant equality don't get it as much.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Hi all, another interesting post. Personally, I think opening doors, giving up your seat on public transport, and pulling a chair out for a lady basic in etiquette. It's frustrating when you catch a bus or train to see guys sitting while ladies stand. Some no doubt do it to score points, while most others i think do it as a sign of respect and their upbringing. For me the grey are comes when paying the bill. To expand on funlover's question, when is it appropriate for a guy to get the bill (showing chivalry) and when is it appropriate to split the bill, especially in a "meet and greet" situation or the early days of dating a woman?
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RHP User
11 years ago
I know you are a thoughtful and kind man,you walked me to my door quite late at night,to ensure that I got safely home.If a person shows me kindness because it is in their nature then why on earth would I object to that.....but I do think that kindness and respect go beyond superficial gestures whose purpose is no longer relevant,like walking on the kerbside,people no longer throw their bedpans from high windows into the street.... :-) as for pulling out my chair.....I don't usually wear a crinoline so it's no longer necessary....as for opening a car door,thank you I can manage.....but if it pleased you to do these things,then who am I to object....it would simply be churlish:-) xx Q
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Mischeviouslad
11 years ago
Chev..... you never fail to disappoint with a ridiculous statement lol DG
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madotara69
11 years ago
It's our mother that teaches us what chivalry means. It's something we feel or something we don't, depending on the people in our life to the times we make reason to things, preferably to a father of the house, though not an absolute. Mado Mado Tara xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'madotara69'It's our mother that teaches us what chivalry means. I went on a few dates with the most caring and generous man. He took me to some amazing restaurants, but when I offered to pay half he told me he father would disown him if he agreed to that.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'Meander' Quoting 'madotara69'It's our mother that teaches us what chivalry means. I went on a few dates with the most caring and generous man. He took me to some amazing restaurants, but when I offered to pay half he told me he father would disown him if he agreed to that. I believe that type of reasoning is partly to conditioning, though mostly interpretations that guy for example expressed. I don't believe chivalry is simply opening doors or expecting to pay for a ladies meal, just giving a lady a seat on the bus sort of actions. I believe from what mum has taught me, and she quoted from her father from his mother "a man is not measured by his deeds, he is measured by the actions of his deeds" Some men would insist on a lady not pay a cent, acting with chivalry, then later beat that lady because she looked the wrong way to that man of chivalry. As a man growing into this world, most things we are taught or led to believe, are lessons interpreted from many things as a whole, being disowned because of a modern difference to social standards, Son from Father and other men, there is nothing so simple to what character is an ideal. Therefore it's comfortable to fall back to ideas from lessons drummed into reasons for thought. (Why not hit a woman if she deserves it, be nice to her when one feels like it) sort of reasons to make our own decisions for actions to deeds including chivalry. So actions to a man and his deeds, there is way more to chivalry by a man who lives with reason to honour it as a gentleman and being a gentleman comes from all the time we have spent learning how to respect our mother, by she is the one who chivalry speaks for, her wellbeing to acts of chivalry by her nature expressed. What does not matter to the term chivalry is of the feelings we learn from mother a lady, and most of all this new age decision a man has to make, being mother a woman a lady a female, is to be treated with respect to being an equal to power ( figure with speech), no less than a man, though loving a woman is that she is special and her feminine nature is a mans use of chivalry that matters, to his character, nature, deeds and actions to them. Our mother is the woman that shows us what chivalry is what to what. It is her and her alone the woman our mother, is what chivalry to it's sense for the lady, is our real true lesson to it. That is how I interpret chivalry, I respect women as to rites by equal and would stand by any woman who were to be treated less. Though in loving my mother and taking her lessons to my life, I love my wife and our children's mother and she is an equal she is a friend and proud, she will pass on what it is our son needs, different than I can teach him. Chivalry is to the matter of care and best intentions to it all as a whole, not just in bits and pieces to be seen as means to impressions as to agenda, another matter for expressing deed, actions to deceive? Each man to his own shall be measured to the character where chivalry is concerned, by the woman and who care to her. Otherwise what use is it for worth to mean anything at all, by anyone?
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Plain
11 years ago
That it always had an agenda so far as the male was concerned and that was to conquer the female object of his desires by pretending to be above reproach, yet when knights were on the campaign trail thought nothing of raping and pillaging their way on their war like adventures. Very much like modern business I would venture to say.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I find that a very negative and unwarranted generalisation, that I vehemently disagree with.
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Lovinit28andKC72
11 years ago
This is how I've tried to bring my 4 boys up, (my big boys are gentlemen, my little boys still have a little way to go, but they're getting there and my daughter has beautiful manners) What an absolutely beautiful trait for a man to have. It all comes down to good manners really, they don't cost you anything and no one ever forgets good manners......
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RHP User
11 years ago
To the online dictionary the age of chivalry was also the age of the horse.....chivalry is from the Latin word caballus meaning to ride a horse.Chivalry is the combination of courage, honour,justice,and a readiness to help the weak.xxQ
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RHP User
11 years ago
I didn't start this for compliments but thank you for the kind words. Q, I'm glad you brought up the true meaning of chivalry. It has evolved over the years but I prefer the definition you gave. Sure, I treat women differently than men. If that makes me sexist, shoot me. I greet women, socially, with a kiss on the cheek and men with a handshake. To me, being a gentleman is nothing more than treating others as you wish to be treated. Remember, being a gentleman is more than just how you treat the ladies. If I'm being more attentive to a lady more than others around, it means I'm interested in her and trying to show her that her comfort is more important than my own. The definition Q has supplied for chivalry is an ideal that every person should strive to reach. Even if we don't always keep to it, if we understand where we fell short and attempt to remedy our actions in the future, our lives can be lived truer to ourselves and our world can be a little better off for it.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I choose not to be pigeon holed by definitions. I always do what I think is right, whether that means helping an old person, or a disabled person. In regards to chivalry towards women, I believe providing assistance when it is needed is a must, but today you need to read the situation and the person as to whether they want the assistance. My manners (as that is what they are) extends to holding doors open for the next person, be they male or female. I must admit though that I will often hold a door open for a woman for the express purpose of checking them out as they go past....
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madotara69
11 years ago
But, where do we hire a horse? and by running a sword through another we will go to prison, not that that is of real concerns, by all meanings as to consequence (joke)
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RHP User
11 years ago
think that men really know where they stand when to comes to chivalry anymore. Why would they put themselves out there just to be told 'I can do it myself'. Nobody likes rejection or made feel bad for trying to do the right thing. Feminists have ruined it for the rest of us who actually adore men for being men. We aren't equal, we aren't even nearly equal, we are different and that should be celebrated not conquered. I love a bit of chivalry, hand in the small of the back, opening doors, etc...it actually makes me feel like a lady in a world where I am forced to be more like a man.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Yes that is exactly how I feel in regards to chivalry. It is almost as if I have to think "ok is this woman going to thank me or slap me"... It is so confusing. But in saying that I believe these values don't hurt or belittle anyone so it is something I will continue to uphold regardless of what the reaction may be. Because it is not in what I receive, it is what I can do to help. So yeh instead of doing things expecting to be noticed etc. which is what most women I have encountered think, I do it to help out. The old sayings "help out where you can" and "treat others how you would like to be treated" is where I'm coming from here.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'ralf74' Feminists have ruined it for the rest of us who actually adore men for being men. We aren't equal, we aren't even nearly equal, we are different and that should be celebrated not conquered. Huge crimson rage going down here... "We aren't even nearly equal" Best calm me & explain what you mean here as I'm certain I have it wrong. I always like your posts generally, but this struck a super shitty chord with me. What is your perception of feminism? I'm an ardent feminist that adores men. And 'Equality' is a key word in feminism. You have severely blasphemed. I get the whole regularly occurring offence when someone holds open the door for a butch dyke and she kicks you in the nuts for belittling her ability to open her own door. Happens every day...
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RHP User
11 years ago
hate anyone prodding me in the small of my back,hold my hand and walk along beside me......open the door for me if that pleases you....pull my chair out if you must......because although I say I ain't no lady.....I sometimes lie:-) .... And yes I am an unashamed feminist,humanist,,anarcho Buddhist....the labels could abound,but really I am just me....I hope that I am kind and.courteous unless you are not xx Q
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RHP User
11 years ago
i think it is very hot.....a man showing his softer side is attractive but sounds like you've become one of the 'mob'...no class or taste......shame.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Why should chivalry, respect, decency be discarded just because time has passed. Maybe the definition of "a decent man" has changed for some people but not me.I will continue to strive to be decent and earn people's respect, its a good feeling.I could say a lot more but you get my drift.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting: Same same E + C + T = Chivalry..... where E is empathy, C is consideration and T is thoughtful actions. It's no big deal, just positive humanity DG That is perfection and goes for both men and women. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Thats a yay from me !!!!!!
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RHP User
11 years ago
Is that you simply treat women with respect, help when you can, and be strong when you need to support them..... - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
we are not equal to men as men are not equal to us women, we are different, and brilliantly so. As women we posses traits that men could not mirror. But, we are so focused on beating men at their own game that we are losing our womanliness that men love about us and men are losing their identity too. Women want their cake and to eat it too and then complain about the crumbs. Doesn't seem to matter what men do, it is wrong or offensive. I really miss a wolf whistle, a cute little reminder that you still have it, oh no wait, it is a sexist gesture from a chauvinistic pig...or so we are led to believe. Just one of many small things that have gone by the wayside but all these small things add up. Just when a bloke thinks he is giving a compliment, he isn't. You can't see where the confusion is here? (and I hardly think it is just butch dykes that have that attitude toward chivalry) I don't care if your opinions differ from mine, you are entitled to your own and I am not enraged by them, I can actually see your point too. Yes feminism has created some great opportunities for women but that is another thread.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'll always lay my T-shirt down in the puddle she just created
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RHP User
11 years ago
or you could sit on my lap
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RHP User
11 years ago
Whilst all these posts make a valid arguement, the question is really have men and women for that matter, lost the art of just good manners and plain old respect for the the opposite sex, without the concept of there being any type of hidden agenda for their curtious action. i.e. opening the door for one another standing for a lady when she enters a room. After all a lady is still a lady untill she proves otherwise, and before you start ladies the same goes for men. This is a far nicer place when we have respect for one another.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Thanks for clearing that up, I still disagree on a few points but also get your view but with the obvious glass ceiling still firmly in place and pay inequality etc. etc. etc. we still need strong feministic attitudes. We have a long way to go for equality, the worst part is we let that happen by accepting less regularly and I think women need to value themselves more without needing to devalue men. It was just the words you chose that bit me - sorry I'm a bit sensitive on the topic for reasons I wont divulge. I think you were pointing more to social idiosyncrasies and will quote a dear lady I know "I start to think Germain Greer got it wrong with the supposed sexual revolution and equality - it has just resulted in a plethora of single mums and disenfranchised men." I don't agree but realise people do. Funny you should bring up the wolf whistle, did you see the furore by the latest Snickers ad?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Back in the days Ladies had their own rules to follow, and it was only through the adherence to those rules that they could qualify for the receipt of chivalry from a gentleman. These days the constant push for gender equality has distorted that notion.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I love a strong, independent woman, who is an intellectual equal, but the occasional glimpse of grace, softness, elegance and vulnerability, is what makes the picture perfect....especially at just the right time SO......if that total picture, that touch of complexity, does it for me (as a guy), I'm guessing the appropriate show of genuine gentlemanly respect, at just the right time.....done just to make someone feel special, and done without any other agenda than that, wouldn't go astray for woman? Multidimensional individuals, with different sides to there character ( in men and women) surely are more interesting! I like to show a gentlemanly side, because that's my natural inclination....it's not always received well...but that's ok...not everyone is going to click with everyone else...and everyone has different tastes desires and preferences. I think that if your actions ( whatever they are) are sincere, and natural, then they are much more likely to be received positively. If your chivalry is forced, contrived, insincere....then it's just going to make the other person uncomfortable, or put them on edge.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'MissKay' Thanks for clearing that up, I still disagree on a few points but also get your view but with the obvious glass ceiling still firmly in place and pay inequality etc. etc. etc. we still need strong feministic attitudes. We have a long way to go for equality, the worst part is we let that happen by accepting less regularly and I think women need to value themselves more without needing to devalue men. It was just the words you chose that bit me - sorry I'm a bit sensitive on the topic for reasons I wont divulge. I think you were pointing more to social idiosyncrasies and will quote a dear lady I know "I start to think Germain Greer got it wrong with the supposed sexual revolution and equality - it has just resulted in a plethora of single mums and disenfranchised men." I don't agree but realise people do. Funny you should bring up the wolf whistle, did you see the furore by the latest Snickers ad? My apologies if I struck a nerve, was never intended as a personal attack on anyone's views, just expressing mine. I do agree with your friend, I think there is a wedge being driven between the sexes. I haven't seen the Snickers ad though, I don't see much tv so will have to google it :)
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'ralf74' My apologies if I struck a nerve, was never intended as a personal attack on anyone's views, just expressing mine. I do agree with your friend, I think there is a wedge being driven between the sexes. I haven't seen the Snickers ad though, I don't see much tv so will have to google it :) I know it wasn't personal so no apology necessary, but the 'hate feminism' and 'not equal' comments were like red flags to a bull for me. We'll have to agree to disagree, but thanks for being so nice about it. Sorry for being so cantankerous about it but I always will be on this subject.
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RHP User
11 years ago
My non forum alter ego.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Is only as effective as the person receiving it acknowledges. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Laffed so hard I fell of da couch:-) :-) :-) :-) Sir Kay of course sat mat the round table xx Q
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RHP User
11 years ago
I loathe autocorrect.... It makes me look such a fool....I need no help with that....sat at,I meant sigh...Q
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Qefenta2' Laffed so hard I fell of da couch:-) :-) :-) :-) Sir Kay of course sat at the round table xx Q I'm a knight? Really? I've outed myself now., sigh. Did you hurt yourself falling dear? Who would you like to rub it better?
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RHP User
11 years ago
If A knightWith a kiteSat at a round tableWould he fightOr delightIn any new fable?Would the KingWith his ringAdvance a new stable?Or delight In the plightOf Miss Kay'sEmbarrassed cable?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'KindaHippy' Quoting 'ralf74' My apologies if I struck a nerve, was never intended as a personal attack on anyone's views, just expressing mine. I do agree with your friend, I think there is a wedge being driven between the sexes. I haven't seen the Snickers ad though, I don't see much tv so will have to google it :) I know it wasn't personal so no apology necessary, but the 'hate feminism' and 'not equal' comments were like red flags to a bull for me. We'll have to agree to disagree, but thanks for being so nice about it. Sorry for being so cantankerous about it but I always will be on this subject. who else it was I offended, lol.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'MissKay' If A knightWith a kiteSat at a round tableWould he fightOr delightIn any new fable?Would the KingWith his ringAdvance a new stable?Or delight In the plightOf Miss Kay'sEmbarrassed cable? A knight would make a fool of himself All to distract from a fair lady by such distress May comment on how lovely she is dressed May comment to his untied shoe laces A knight would do whatever it takes To save her from uncomfortable grace Even if she could kick their arse Another time another place A confidant bow then quick exit. Knight and fair lady ride off into the sunset
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RHP User
11 years ago
xxx
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RHP User
11 years ago
I love them. I always try to thank a stranger for opening the door for me. I will wait for an older man to walk before me (my grandfather taught me that) My husband will open a taxi door for me. He'll rest his hand at the small of my baccrossing the street. I love it. It makes me feel special Working with the elderly I am learning a lot about the chivalrous ways of the gentlemen. I'm also learning how to be more of a lady. They appreciate it. And they love being able to act all gentlemanly towards me. I had a 96 year old apologize to me for not standing when I entered the room. I just said that I'm sure he would have if he still had the use of his legs and I appreciate the thought. Apparently I made his day with that answer. - Posted from rhpmobile
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