F67
Crime and punishment
October 17 2013
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
I certainly have zero time for criminals... And even less for those who form gangs to create fear and intimidation amongst their victims. But at the same time I'm not sure about the thin edge of the wedge... Left handed lesbians have always pissed me off... When I get into power, they are all going to be doing hard labor (maybe I'll even incorporate on of Chevys fucking machines... :) silly I know... But what will be next ? I mean surely these thugs will just form knitting clubs etc... Maybe this could be a way back for the CWA ? Recruit bikies... Hp xo 💌 I've got questions... But not many answers...
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RHP User
11 years ago
have anti Terrorist laws that target specific groups, ie terrorists, why not just extend that to outlaw bikie gangs. Bikies are really just home grown terrorists that use stand over tactics against normal law abiding citizens and they are behind most of the illegal drug and firearms trade.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I know they need to untie their hands but any more than 3 motorcyclists together is illegal? Sorry, that's not OK. They've been targeting specific groups for years (internationally), they still get around it though. (The groups, not the police) Unfortunately, if we want basic human rights, people will use this to their benefit for illegal activity. Does the ends justify the means? A band aid solution if you ask me.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I honestly thought this place would be one for preserving freedoms given the traits we all like to maintain in our private lives. In the last few years alone we have seen:Removal of right to silenceDraconian Qld laws and mandatory sentencingPeople held by the US for over 10 years without trial (innocent until proven guilty indeed)Whistleblowers seeking asylum in RussiaJournalists who exposed PRISM held and targeted at airports (with no charge) for 9 hoursChelsea Manning copping 35 years for (helping to) inform the world what the US is up toThe proposed internet bill here where ISPs will be required to keep user data for 2 yearsPeoples minds influenced by mainstream media and, in particular, News Corp - a company that thinks it's alright to hack dead people's phonesThe prohibition of drugs is a flawed concept peddled by the US DEA aimed at keeping (in particular) Latin American nations oppressed (and thus a cheep, close source of labour for US firms) and kowtowing sycophant govts like the UK and Oz who are happy to get on all 4s for the US. Prohibition has zero effect on supply or demand because supply and demand are factors determined by economics alone. All prohibition has done is increase the price. Sounds like most here get their world views from redneck radio and shock jocksWakey wake
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RHP User
11 years ago
We haven't read the legislation but surely they aren't meaning ANY 3 motorcyclists? Maybe definitions are required, there are motorcyclists, bikers and BIKIES, even the Police have a motorcycle club that ride together as a group. If they are targeting bikers or motorcyclists I can't wait until the next Ulysses meet in QLD. I can just hear the Magistrate when they reel in the QLD chapter of the "GOD SQUAD" motorcycle club. I do miss the old consorting laws here in Victoria, ah the good old days.
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Beachlover1999
11 years ago
If I have my human rights ' head' on I would say it is a total disgrace that such laws are being brought in......However I am now a Mother and with the virtue of age my opinions have softened or perhaps hardened for the greater good of decent hard working honest folk. Bikie gangs are thugs or as slm says domestic terrorists and need to be stopped (or at least try to curtail their illegal activities). Did you see on the ABC this week, that the phoenix outlawed gang have joined with the hard core 'Mongrels' in the US!!!! Huge concern and now apparently the bikies are leaving Queensland....next stop NSW!!!! We need to be toughening up and make the law for the majority and not minority groups who chaos in our communities! :))
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madotara69
11 years ago
Kevin Rudd, spent sixty million dollars a week, so he could get a seat on an all expense paid world tour. Sacked one of his female staff for not having a hair dryer.Is that the type of person that is above the discretion of a judge.The pot calling the kettle black.Mado
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's too late to start giving a fuck now ? While the masses were asleep in blissful BBQ apathy our children's freedom was lost and their future mortgaged. It truly disgusts me that this issue is hardly on the radar for most people - they deserve what is coming for them.First they came for the Drug users,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a drug user.Then they came for the Terrorists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Terrorist.Then they came for the Bikersand I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Biker.Then they came for me,and there was no one left to speak for me."How does it become a man to behave toward this government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it."
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RHP User
11 years ago
First the hoon legislation, now outlaw bikie gangs ?? Will it fix anything ? is the question. I am a car enthusiast, I am also a Harley/bike enthusiast, I am not a criminal, does this now mean that if I go for a cruise with the boys for lunch or an ice cream at some beachside location I will be pulled over by the boys in blue ? YES, but I will be let go after a quick check, has happened before and will continue. Back to the QLD issue, Most will leave QLD and head to another state whilst maintaining a stealth operation within QLD is my guess. I doubt other groups will be targeted unless they misbehave.
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RHP User
11 years ago
From my understan Quoting 'Alius' It's too late to start giving a fuck now ? While the masses were asleep in blissful BBQ apathy our children's freedom was lost and their future mortgaged. It truly disgusts me that this issue is hardly on the radar for most people - they deserve what is coming for them.First they came for the Drug users,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a drug user.Then they came for the Terrorists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Terrorist.Then they came for the Bikersand I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Biker.Then they came for me,and there was no one left to speak for me."How does it become a man to behave toward this government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it." I think you might have a problem if you need drug users and terrorist to speak for you.
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RHP User
11 years ago
So far historically very very similar laws have been passed in NSW and SA. Those laws are gone now though. Two reasons, even when they were in place, they were so hideously complex the police could barely use them and more importantly, the Courts decided they were unconstitutional and therefore void. I am guessing in 3 months the entire thing will be a non-issue as the Queensland legislation will face the same fate.I am one of a fairly small number of Australian citizens who don't have the traditional "right to silence" by virtue of my occupation. When that first happened the silence was deafening, nobody stood for us other than us. And despite all the arguments about why we should lose that right, at the end of it all it came down to economics. It was decided that it was cheaper for us to lose the right to silence than to spend the money to do thorough investigations.Our civil rights ARE our freedom, they are vitally important even when we need not fight to exercise them. They are worth fighting for.
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RHP User
11 years ago
The laws will be chucked out when challenged in the high court. But it lets the deluded rednecks and shock jocks turn their attention to something else for a few months. As an aside how many people have been king hit and died in alcohol fuelled violence as opposed to how many have been king hit at a place like Arq where everyone is E-ing off their heads and hugging everyone. Laws and `morals' are all value judgements put in place by contemptible politicians and churches that are used to beat a gullible (by and large) populace who think lawmakers are looking after the interests of society.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Hmm.... Thought this was going to be about Dostoyevsky....
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Dieselnoi' From my understan Quoting 'Alius' It's too late to start giving a fuck now ? While the masses were asleep in blissful BBQ apathy our children's freedom was lost and their future mortgaged. It truly disgusts me that this issue is hardly on the radar for most people - they deserve what is coming for them.First they came for the Drug users,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a drug user.Then they came for the Terrorists,and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Terrorist.Then they came for the Bikersand I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Biker.Then they came for me,and there was no one left to speak for me."How does it become a man to behave toward this government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it." I think you might have a problem if you need drug users and terrorist to speak for you. Wrong time and place for witless, point scoring jibes mate. I don't need anyone to speak for me ... if you were able to perceive your own reality rather than just try to fit the one presented to you on TV you would know that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter or revolutionary. The founding fathers of America were "Terrorists" under the same definition.Anyway Einstein, they are variables within the quote - I just replaced Jews, Trade Unionists and Communists with some modern examples. It makes no difference to the MEANING.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm a little lost at the whole bikie thing to be honest :( some of my family run high up in the rebels ? And they are the nicest of guys n girls u will ever meet. I was driving back from Qld few years ago and a large group of bikes whet last me doing around 140klm so I sorta tagged on the end of then ? When two cop cars went past I shit as I was over speed (yeh I know not smart) anyway as I drove past (in a ute) the cops just waved at me as if to say all good??? Point is they look bad n some are but most of the guys are just every day fellas :))
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RHP User
11 years ago
When they talk about giving police "new stronger powers" to do anything including cook a baked dinner. Often it's all a smokescreen and when you look into it, they were powers the police could exercise anyway. The bizarre thing is that the "new" powers are harder to exercise than what was already in place by virtue of new restrictions placed on their use. Often this is not a bad thing as it introduces a few additional safeguards for our collective civil rights but it's still essentially dishonest saying police have "more powers".Any approach to law enforcement need to be holistic or it is doomed to failure. All arms of the criminal justice system need to be involved, from police to the Courts to Corrections. And above all else the citizens need to want those changes or it is doomed to failure. One area of success with some innovative legislation would be random breath testing and that was roughly the early 80's. There is a piece of law that violates most of the principles of our entire system. It is random crime detection, something seen as abhorrent in other areas of law. Yet it generally speaking has the support of the public, largely owing to the fact it more than halved the road toll within 18 months of its inception (in NSW anyway). Most people don't really think too much about it, but it is a really revolutionary piece of law, but one where we have collectively accepted compromises to our right of freedom of movement and also our rights not to say or do anything that may incriminate us.The legislation involving the OMCG's is really an extension of current consorting legislation but consorting legislation is one that historically has been very problematic both practically and also from a civil rights point of view. In my humble opinion all the tools needed to fight organised crime are there in the toolbox for police, the problem with much of it is the toolbox being tied shut with masses of red tape. Some of the red tape is very necessary to preserve our collective rights, but much of it is simply just there for no good reason. We should probably be doing an overhaul of some of the existing legislation to create a system that serves us rather than introducing new law into an arena where it will likely be ineffective.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Love my fellow 1%ers. These laws are a knee jerk reaction which has been blown up by the media. I can understand that society might not feel safe but the reality is that as a 1%er you will be dealt harshly by your own brothers for hurting civilians, especially women and children. Crime is something that will never go away, there are plenty of other people who will fill the void left by bikies if the government thinks they can get rid of them all. OMCG's are a product of society, the HA's were formed by WW vets who were trained to be killers by their government yet they didn't have a system in place for returning soldiers to be able to reintegrate back into society. So instead they formed a motorcycle club. Majority of OMCG's are full of vets who haven't been taught how to live a normal and civil life again. Prohibition doesn't work either, it will backfire in the government's face and illegal trades will be taken up by more subtle criminal enterprises such as the mafia, triads, yakuza (and yes they exist in Australia). All this media attention is glorifying bikies to the younger generations and memberships are flourishing at the moment. People have stereotypical ideas about bikies but in fact if you ever went to a clubhouse and met the blokes you would see that they are a mixed group of mates who range from successful businessmen to your average joe blow, who enjoy nothing more than hanging out and having a drink with each other. They're not there to hurt society or the innocent.Prohibition has never and will never work in the future. As long as there is a black market, there will always be someone selling. Change as many laws as you want to combat bikies, in the end it will only be society who innocently suffers. Bikies will always flourish and have their presence. Lastly, picked up the herald sun yesterday and read about the horrible acts of the latest pedophile priest to be jailed. Amazing how there's no new laws to tackle these monsters and label their organisations as criminal. How many times have you heard a bikie touching up kids? I heard of one, he was beaten savagely by his own brothers and kicked out of the club whilst having his tattoos forcibly removed.Rant over, Fat Mex
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RHP User
11 years ago
Fat Mex, you didn't mention what the "1%er" actually means. There is a little more to OMCG's than brotherhood and toy runs.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Alius' Wrong time and place for witless, point scoring jibes mate. I don't need anyone to speak for me ... if you were able to perceive your own reality rather than just try to fit the one presented to you on TV you would know that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter or revolutionary. The founding fathers of America were "Terrorists" under the same definition.Anyway Einstein, they are variables within the quote - I just replaced Jews, Trade Unionists and Communists with some modern examples. It makes no difference to the MEANING. I hope you don't assume that all terrorists are freedom fighters? maybe some but not all. Terrorism does not always relate to freedom, a terrorist mat have other motives in causing terrorism such as revenge, finacial crisis, ransom, occupation, racial abuse, control, etc. Definition of terrorism is vague, but it is mainly an 'illegal act carried out to create fear (terror)".Bombing in Boston is considered an terrorist act and its motive was mainly religious. And now you are comparing Al Queda to George Washington? I must say that I do not know the extend details of the American Revolutionary, but how can you compare the American Revolutionary to Al Queda? Did the founding fathers attack civilians in order to cause fear to the British? Their cause were truly to revolutionized the country, to gain independent and freedom. Somali pirates can also be considered an act of terrorism, and it has been reported that the some ransom from piracy are used to fund other terrorist groups, militants, etc. How can you call them freedom fighter?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Here here fat mex, completely agree with you there, these laws being passed are ridiculous. I'm also a supporter of a large club and if any of the nay sayers were to come down for drinks one night, I can guarantee their opinions would change. Like any club, of course there is going to be bad apples, the church is a great example with much more serious crimes than what people claim 1% clubs do, I think I have read in articles that out of all the crimes committed in Australia 1% of them are committed by members AND associates of outlaw clubs, to put this into perspective, to be an associate, it's as simple as being at the club and the police doing a "random" check and punching in your vehicles rego... Then ta da!! You're now considered an associate - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Associates are just nice guys hanging around a mc club ? Fuck off ! Associates are apprentice thugs, plain simple muscle men to protect the hierarchy. Hp xo 💌 Because you're worth it...- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Clearly you haven't hung around any clubs? In saying what you just said you imply I'm a muscle man protecting the hierarchy, someone is a bit brainwashed by the media it seems. You're more than welcome to view my pics and see I'm far from a muscle man. In my opinion mc clubs have better morals than most of society, they take loyalty and brotherhood as an upmost priority, look after those they love. I'll give you a great example, recently a supporters wife had a serious horse accident where every chapter took donations, I don't think I saw a note smaller than $20 in there. To further add to that argument, on a recent national run a club came across 2 cyclists riding for charity, they got a donation tin from the cyclists and from memory a few thousand was raised, around the 6k mark- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
nobody's payin any attention to what they may be up to on the QT eh ...?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Still wondering if one of you would explain why you call yourself "1%ers"
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madotara69
11 years ago
I have met many Clubies, I have been at many of their events. Even been on a couple of runs with them. One run was to a young couples property that were about to have a baby. I saw tears on many faces as the president passed on all the donations to the family to be.Another time, The president chose a small town doing things tough, and took the whole club camping nearby, then took the big bad guys and girls into town for a spend up. We ate and drank with the local community in their cafes, clubs, restaurants. Hundreds of men and women in all the shops buying something, just spending some money and time with the local folk. No trouble and when the president rode out of town with his people, the streets were full of local citizens smiling and waving.It is important not to forget what the whole idea is for these clubs, not just for some that cast shadow's to Old school meanings.If the bikies disappear, there is still going to be the same amount of crooks.Sorry if this seems naive, though I must pay respect to the many good people that have treated me with such in return.Mado
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