M35
Is monogamy natural?
June 23 2013
Comments
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On_Safari
11 years ago
Wine and cheese platter at the fore. This topic has been posted before so I'm just keen to see where this goes OP.
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Mischeviouslad
11 years ago
A wonderful creation by hierarchical positions as a means to control people for their own end. It's a bit like flying. Man isn't meant to fly... .... but if we REALLY want to, we will. DG
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's an age old question, much the same as what is the value of religion, is there a God, etc. There are many studies and stats that will allow you to argue either side. At the end of the day, after all the cyclical arguments and debate settles down, I think only one person can answer your question with any value - and that's you (or whoever is asking it of themselves).For me, monogamy does not work. Lucky for me, I married a man who feels the same way. We have a lifestyle that suits both of our needs for the moment. I don't judge others who choose monogamy, the same as I don't judge those who devote themselves to religion. Who cares if monogamy is "natural" or not? Really? If someone sat down in front of me today with unequivocal proof that monogamy is natural and the way humans were designed to exist, does that change how I feel and how my husband feels and how we exist in our marriage? Absolutely not. We do what feels right for us, regardless of "the norm". I suspect many other people on this site do similar.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Monogamy is not a natural thing for humans, just last week we were watching a doco on human development and it seems even the design of the penis hints at a non monogamous use. Apparently the knob/ glands is shaped so as to push out the other guys semen so as to allow your semen a better chance to plant your DNA.
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Paradisepair
11 years ago
For some it is the most natural thing in the world... For others it's not. There are 7+ billion people on the planet, what's perfectly natural one place is illegal somewhere-else. Throw in marriages which allow multiple wives and the whole question is very very fuzzy...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Hey, I'm a biology student so I might dive in here with a long, overly literal answer...From what I've learned, monogamy in the animal kingdom is, universally, very rare, including among primates. Even among birds which pair for life there is a distinction between social, and sexual monogamy with the latter being very rare. In other words, birds such as penguins partner for life with one mate, but will breed with individuals other than their life partner. As for testicle size, I have not read 'Sex at Dawn' (have really been wanting to for a long time, though!), but from what I know larger testicles in mammals is an indication of female promiscuity and not just non-monogamy as a whole. Primates such as gorillas have smaller testicles relative to their body size because they live in harems with one male partnered with many females. They produce less sperm, leading to smaller testicles, because they are assured their sperm will not need to compete with the sperm of other males. In humans on the other had, men having larger testicles indicates that us ladies are getting with more than one man. It would therefor, be evolutionarily advantageous for human men to produce more sperm for greater release during insemination (=large testicles), so they have greater assurance their sperm is successful.slm144 I believe I have seen the same doco as you, and would like to add that adaptations to penises for the removal of sperm of competitors are another thing which is seen in many, many species across the animal kingdom. As are sperm storage organs in females. In some animals (some insects) females are able to use these organs to select which sperm from which male they would like to use to fertilize their eggs. Both structures are physiological evidence for the rarity of monogamy.I know that when research was being done 30-40 years ago on female promiscuity in the animal kingdom it was hypothesized that it would be very rare, based on cultural beliefs which were applied to science. This was blown out of the water by hard evidence which said the opposite, females in the animal kingdom are universally promiscuous. I personally hate the term 'natural' because I think having an expectation that everyone should do something because it is 'natural' for a majority squashes diversity, which is probably the most healthy and natural thing for the human population to have, but with that said, it needs to be kept in mind, as demonstrated with the outcome of studies on female promiscuity, that just because a belief is culturally held it is not necessarily 'natural' for every, or even many individuals. I am no expert on human sexuality and would love it if some one who is and is on here would speak up incase my perspective is incorrect, but it seems that most research into human sexuality is fairly recent, confounded by culture in some cases, and certain highly publicized studies are done either with small samples, or samples which aren't as random as they could be. This isn't to discredit all of the work that has been done, but rather to remind people that pop-science articles that are published the news should be taken with a grain of salt and/ or examined critically. So I don't know what comprehensive research has been done on non-monogamy in humans, but would love it if any sexologist on here could fill me in :)I know this is an essay, but every time I see this topic posted I kind of want to scream 'No! Monogamy is NOT common in the animal kingdom, regardless of what culture says!' and hopefully give a bit more detailed information for anyone who is bored/ nerdy enough to read what I've written.So in a nutshell...If humans are sexually monogamous we are an anomaly in the animal kingdom.I don't know much about the human specific research on sexual monogamy but would love to hear from someone who does.
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RHP User
11 years ago
for someone who used to argue the point that humans are evolved past the point of having a need for several partners, and having the intelligence for loyalty and monogamy I have recently changed my mind. after some deep thought and self reflection, I have come to realise it's a personal decision. I don't believe either are exclusively natural, it depends on the person's wants and needs. For me, i'm exploring the other side because monogamy hasn't been working for me as well as i would have hoped. But, despite the high divorce rates etc, i know several people who have been married and only ever had one sexual partner their entire sexual lives, and are completely content (as far as i know lol) with it.Each to their own ;)
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Rockynumber1
11 years ago
Mmmmm very interesting topic and one I have been dealing with in any relationships that I have had in the past...maybe that's why I have not married and have not had children.I agree with Paradise, for some people monogamy in a relationship is perfectly natural and sometimes I think that maybe they are the lucky ones. But for others its not and I wonder if its genetics. Some of us might have a particular gene that is more dominant in the monogamy stakes that does not allow us to commit to monogamous relationships. I'd be interested in any studies on this topic.And like Kitten N Shooter, I think the trick is finding someone who accepts you for who you are and actually wants the share it with you. That my friends would be a match made in heaven. TD x
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RHP User
11 years ago
monogamy what a silly thing it is ,we should be enjoying and cellabrating life and everything it has to offer ,sex is the best fun we can have for free so we should all be sharing and enjoying it . throw away jealousies ,greed and aggression live life and have fun whilst we can
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RHP User
11 years ago
Yes it is. I do not believe that one man or woman will be together ( some can, just , not for me) forever, however, the only way that you can truly find out if somebody could be that special person, that you want to spend time with is to give 100% of your time to each other, for the longevity of your time together, that might be 1 week, month, year or longer, however, when you have other options, you will never know what could have been... I like to give people 100% of my attention and make a decision based on the facts, not having a back up plan or be thinking of other opportunities - they are either right or wrong for me - Sees no grey.
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QLDtwo4fun
11 years ago
We probably wouldn't be on this site.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I liked your comments, very interesting - especially that the general consensus is that is not "natural" for us to be monogamous. venus_surprise - your response in particular was great. You should read it, it's detailed and the argument that is formed is very open to your own interpretation.However when referring to the animal kingdom - keep in mind monogamy does exist in quite a few species, even one particular type of ape.My conclusion: we are not naturally monogamous, “Out of all Earth’s creatures, none is as urgently, creatively, and constantly sexual as Homo sapiens.” But as monogamy is the mainstream in terms of sexuality and probably not going to change in a very long time - it's impossible to avoid. Some of you referred to monogamy being able to work if you found someone special.But does this make it a good thing just because you able to make it work - and couldn't it be easier to accept what we naturally are instead of surrounding it with lies and deceit?We can see it working every day - but are there consequences of which their magnitude we are not consciously aware of?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Black or White or Grey? I believe that there is always someone for someone. Back up plans indicate no commitment. Grey is such a drab shade.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Kitten_n_shooter, I think you summed it up nicely. Like every question ever raised there will always be arguments for, against and in between. What makes one person happy and fulfilled will make another miserable. There really is no right or wrong, as long as you can look at yourself in the mirror every morning.
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chevtrek
11 years ago
Nature says no as we are designed not to be monogamous. Religion and the powers that be ask that we be such. Ever notice that most heads of state are ugly---lol
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RHP User
11 years ago
only if you don't have a short attention span
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RHP User
11 years ago
Out of curiosity, which species of primates? And are the socially monogamous, or sexually monogamous?
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's probably not "natural" but with the gift of reason we can all make our own choices about monogamy :)
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scubaboy69
11 years ago
When men’s sperm was tested after an absence from their wives during which the wife, being alone at home, had the opportunity to have sex with other men (regardless of whether she took the opportunity or not), the test showed that the husband had produced “killer” sperm... sperm which attacked other men’s sperm when mixed together.Revenge of the Killer Sperm!!!
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RHP User
11 years ago
@venus_surpiseHey sorry for the late reply - The only monogamous ape is called the gibbon.It is kind of like the stupid one out of the bunch and shares the smallest amount of our DNA. Has not got the same advanced intelligence as the other primate species, and practices infrequent, reproduction-only copulation.I'm not sure about being socially monogamous - but usually sexual monogamy means social monogamy in the animal kingdom too. :)I have notes on the book (6 pages) - if you would like them message me. (this goes for anyone interested - not just the sexy people who responded to this thread)
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RHP User
11 years ago
Monogamy is learned behaviour. Some people are great students, some are not, and some choose to teach themselves what is right for them.
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