Is too much pride and self-worth a negative thing?

April 27 2016

Hello everyone, I would like to discuss a topic of which I have been thinking about lately, as it emerged through a conversation I was having with a girlfriend. This is purely from my own personal experience and it seems to be a norm within society today. So, we some how got into the talking point that straight guys that dress and take care of themselves above the average level lets say, is gay. She said that straight guys in Australia (correct me if I am wrong) would not take as much pride in themselves as I do, if they were straight. I am a very straight guy and do enjoy women and I do like having beauty products, moisturisers, face cream and other good grooming/ hygiene routines, well dressed and always well presented, guys have skin just like girls you know! :)I enjoy having a massage or even having my nails done by someone else! Is there some sort of stigma amongst guys that dress and appear to be very metro-sexual/gay even though they are straight? Is this due to the fact that people are not actually used to seeing straight guys take such pride and foremost prioritise their self worth in this world? I like wearing the occasional scarf, have regular face masks at home, wear fashionable and fitted clothes (nothing out of the ordinary as such). In Europe, Sweden more precisely, where I hail from this would be consider the norm, so conclusively are people thoughts somewhat more judgemental here in Australia due to the fact that these habits have never been a regular thing amongst guys here and the culture may be different or does it simply come down to the individuals level of self-value and self worth? Interested to hear what womens opinions are about guys that dress and take care of themselves more than the average guy. Kimxo

Comments

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Good on you. Most of my friends husbands wash their hair with hand soap and wouldn't know what moisturiser is for. That's not to say they don't take pride in their appearance though. good question.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Is this bad of me? But I am waiting for Stirry's comment. I am sure it will be very blokey! :-)

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I'm assuming you spend half of Saturday nights in the bathroom just touching yourself up in a bid to keep those pesky stray hairs in line. Maybe you sit down to piss to so that way you don't spray the bowl and risk snapping a nail cleaning it up? Lol I know this sounds like I'm picking on ya, but I'm trying really hard not to..... I grew up rolling in dirt, eating grass, grazing my knee, feeding cows hay, etc. I'm not saying you didn't, but to this day, I still see my hands as weathered and blokey. I still see my imperfect complexion a sign of rugged sex appeal. Yes it is a stigma for guys like you, but if you enjoy it, then keep on keeping on with it....its inherently you, and that I won't judge you for......but I will hang shit on you for it as that's another blokey thing that I do..... - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Ahh. Stirry never disappoints I see. Haha. Love ya work.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Is an antediluvian fossil,Lips. Yes being this way as outlined by Stirry, is still very common,they mistake their smelly coarseness for masculinity,and then they wonder why all the single ladies choose the well groomed,sweet smelling blokes. Keep on doing what you are doing Lips,and ignore those Wombat males and their jibes. And who doesn't love a sexy Swede😈 Q

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    ...I think many Australian males have a strong affinity for the rugged masculine simply because of the climate in the majority of our nation. The warm, outdoors friendly climate for much of the year. To perspire is almost inevitable when engaging in most activities that are outdoors and along with that goes the many pastimes that might be considered a summer luxury in chilly northern Europe. I grew up in warm North Queensland where it's summer all year round and the humidity is just part of life...as is the sun, the sea, fishing, football, cricket...I could go on. We're an outdoorsy people. Which is probably why Australia has been so exceptionally successful in those sports like swimming, surfing, triathlon, etc. Our climate and huge coastline encourages a training base from a very young age in surf clubs and the like.I didn't own my first scarf or even a hoodie until into my 30's....I just never needed one in the warm States. That simple really.Naturally, we're no more stereotypes here than any other nation in the world...but our environment influences us massively.I personally moisturise morning and night and I groom myself to be neat and tidy because that's my preference, notbecause I have any homoerotic undertones hiding in the cupboard.Kim, don't read too much into what your female friend said. It's a warm country, we live outdoors and dress down to match the weather.That simple. Honest.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Its quite the norm. Gosh my sons have used my products on their faces and hair since they were small. It was only a few generations ago where a male wouldnt even use sunscreen, and guys who are 50 and have leathery skin. Keep looking after your skin and keep those hands soft. Nothing better than nice soft fingers....😜

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    its in the aussie bloke culture, but i dont think it should be. I love it when a man dresses well , and smells nice! Its obviously becoming more popular too because I've noticed more and more skin ranges being produced that are aimed at men.

  • social_suicide

    social_suicide

    9 years ago

    “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” ― Charles Bukowski “Boring damned people. All over the earth. Propagating more boring damned people. What a horror show. The earth swarmed with them.” ― Charles BukowskiDisplaying ego............."If moderation is a fault, then indifference is a crime".............So walk your own path and flip that finger to boring people

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I got my son into a basic skincare regime, Cetaphil facewash and a moisturiser after shaving, and he has been wearing aftershave since he was 16. He dresses nicely if he is going out, and his friends are all the same. I prefer a guy who takes pride in himself. I have only once met a guy who turned up after an afternoon in the bar with his mates all sweaty, hair all claggy, stinking of beer and wearing stained jeans. That was the first and last time. Its not "gay" or "effeminate" its just taking a bit of pride in your personal hygiene and appearance xx

  • Mischeviouslad

    Mischeviouslad

    9 years ago

    Pride and presentation are one thing........ but if you spend more time preening and posing and mirror gazing than she does..... good luck 😄

  • magicfingers23

    magicfingers23

    9 years ago

    Different visions... I can relate to what you are saying in some ways and I still have my masculine ways in many areas of my life but see my habits and traits as improvements and more life enhancing rather than disadvantages. Masculinity from my point of view is not represented by your appearance but through personality and who you are as a person.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Right on cue too I might add ;) - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    ...it's only thinly-veiled arrogance that will get you in trouble. You're playing to a tough crowd!

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'LipsPotatoChips' Masculinity from my point of view is not represented by your appearance but through personality and who you are as a person. I agree with this sentence 100% Everybody has a different opinion and you can't please everybody. Just be yourself and you will most likely attract the sort of women that you want to attract anyway.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'Koolgrey'don't read too much into what your female friend said. It's a warm country, we live outdoors and dress down to match the weather.That simple. Honest. The climate explains dress habits to an extent, but not so much the other aspects referred to by the OP such as skincare, and it also doesn't explain why the idea persists among some Australians that men who dress a certain way and use skincare products are 'gay'. I think there are other cultural / sociological and historical factors going on there, but as some have pointed out that does appear to be a notion that's slowly changing.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    But I'm a big believer in dressing clean and fashionable . I don't use aftershave because I get violent headaches. If my skin is dry , I'll rub in a moisturiser, and I'm straight as a dye. Looking after yourself don't mean you're gay..

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    and most of the guys there spent more time preening and talking about their accessories than the women at the wet mess so times are definitely changing. Its the whole meterosexual thing really. The hipsters these days even make beards look efeminate. Sad really :( As for your skincare regime if its what floats your boat do what you feel best doing. Each to their own. Mrs3 rarely wears makeup or dolls herself up so we're peas in a pod. Whatever make you happy stick with it. Don't change for others. In the long run, nobody is worth giving up what is essentially you for.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    The thing is, I also grew up in the country, with dirt and dirty boys lol but I now prefer the clean variety. I love when a guy takes care with personal hygeine and grooming. One of the many reasons I sway towards mixed or other race or other nationalities like Italian/Greek, also Middle Eastern and European (though some can be very hairy, I watch for that), and one of the main reasons I shy away from country boys now. I freak out at the thought of where their hands have been before they go near my pussy. I'm very particular about that and now love guys who for example, if they have facial hair, they trim it right down into those kind of lines, they shave chest hair and pubic hair, hair free I love, and are squeaky clean, but still manly, boy are they manly. So that's now my preference, to the point where I'm very standoffish with Australian guys. Sweeping generalisation, maybe, but like I said, not the only reason. They're also VERY horny and full on sexually, just the way I like them. Had a European guy here the other day with the most yummy hair, nearly shoulder length with those springy curls, he showered a few times, on arrival and departure, but was asking which bottle was conditioner and I loved that he even used it, it bought all his curls up springy and soft mmm Had an interesting conversation with him actually shh don't tell anyone I actually had a conversation about how he was raised with nudity, the whole family never wore clothes around each other, he said it's different to here, they grow up relaxed and comfortable with nudity and sexuality. He waltzes out to my yard, in full view of neighbours just with a towel around him, if I let him, he'd walk out there naked, I love that

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Give me an Italian hairdresser any day, squeaky clean with the neat lined facial hair mmm Do I think men like that are gay, well for a start I wouldn't care, actually I'd prefer they were bi so I could have some, but no not at all

  • PurePeony

    PurePeony

    9 years ago

    ... and that's why moisturising and other skincare regimes are so important! ;) I like guys who are well-groomed and smell lovely. Oh my gosh... if I smell a whiff of musk, I go all crazy like a cat to catnip! :P I love men who turn up for a date after work with their business suit and tie thang because I fantasise about undressing them layer by layer! :D OK back to the topic. I appreciate men who take care of their looks. It's one thing to look masculine and rugged, but to look weathered and way older than the real age is something I really do not appreciate. My ex bf was the same age as me but he looked way older and all my friends who met him was stunned to learn that he wasn't more than 10 years older than me because he certainly looked it. :P I think I want to stand beside a man and we both look like a respectable well-groomed couple, unless of course, we are doing some outdoorsy stuff in which case, I'd love to look like an appropriately geared and attired outdoorsy couple. :P I do have fantasies of making "home videos" or allowing my man to take sexy photos of me for his pleasure and that's part of the reason why I'm working hard to lose weight and look better! Vanity of vanities! Hehehe! I draw the line at the Korean / Japanese "pretty boy" types. Eeeks! Who's got the balls? :P Guys with eyeliner kinda freak me out. And if they look effeminate and soft like tofu, forget it. Who's the woman? Who's the man? :P I want someone taller, stronger, and more masculine so if we have strong winds and I kinda lose my footing, I can aaaahhh... lean against his strong, firm chest and feel soooo protected! :D If their skincare and grooming regime is longer than mine, it also freaks me out! It's hard to beat me though because in Winter, my nightly skincare regime involves different oils and creams and lotions and serums... up to six different layers. It's much lighter in Summer, of course. All said, I love having bf's / FWB's who allow me to pamper and groom them! I sooooo love it! I used to do facials (of the non-XXX rated sort! LOL!) and stuff for my ex's. So fun! If I used a mask, they get one too! If I try a new skincare product, they get to try it too. The tough mudder kinda guys typically protest and try to squirm their way out of it but they soon get used to the pampering because there's always a happy ending for being a "nice client". Otherwise, if resistance is too great, there are always ties and handcuffs and ropes and feather whips. :P Yeah... I love role-playing - Beautician, Masseuse, Shampoo Girl... Hehehe! So OP, you are doing well. You look good! I think you'll continue to look young and radiant as you age because you obviously take great care of your skin. Well done!

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Really, it's the only way to be. Clearly Stirry is comfortable with who he is, even if he couldn't recognise a moisturiser if it fell out of the sky on his face. "Moist-your-eyes?? Isn't that what happens when you get a football in the nuts?" ;) Oh, I'm an Aussie bloke who can shit stir as well as dress snappy. I go both ways.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I love guys with eye liner

  • Seachange

    Seachange

    9 years ago

    Love a man who is well groomed and hygienic. And if.they are fashion conscious as well, phwoar!!! Leaving and working in Europe and North America, I notice the men are better at looking after themselves. Specially in Paris where men exude simple elegance from the way they wear their scarves to fantastic fashion statements. I melt. Just be yourself. In the long run your grooming regimes will serve you well n avoid premature ageing. You'll get more young chicks interested in you by then as opposed to the wrinkled rough looking peers who let themselves go. 😁

  • Seachange

    Seachange

    9 years ago

    I meant "living" not leaving. Typo. Lol

  • PurePeony

    PurePeony

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'lilyorchid' Love a man who is well groomed and hygienic. And if.they are fashion conscious as well, phwoar!!! Leaving and working in Europe and North America, I notice the men are better at looking after themselves. Specially in Paris where men exude simple elegance from the way they wear their scarves to fantastic fashion statements. I melt. Just be yourself. In the long run your grooming regimes will serve you well n avoid premature ageing. You'll get more young chicks interested in you by then as opposed to the wrinkled rough looking peers who let themselves go. 😁 As always, very eloquent! ;) I can never be attracted to men who don't maintain themselves well. I shudder with horror at the recollection of how a few dates have turned up - sloppy, unkempt, probably unshowered too and that's when you secretly dab a few drops from your little perfume bottle under your nose to prevent their smell from confirming your suspicion. :P And men who have let themselves go and look way older than their peers, oh dear... :P I don't want to date Santa Claus, but I do want to date Herr Klaus! :D

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    ...and I concede that I didn't address the skincare regime that, I think, Kim is more interested in hearing opinions on.Obviously because he is quite proud of his skincare routine. And quite fairly so. I have a skincare "routine" too, that I've followed for over 20 years...but I wouldn't say that I'm "proud" of it. It's on a par with showering and washing. It's not an unpleasant chore, any more than brushing my teeth is. I just do it.Which.......leads me to wonder "Is too much pride and self-worth a negative thing?" No. Never, I believe. But vanity can easily be mistaken for pride and self-worth too. And vanity's something that is rarely beneficial, I think. I was in Scandinavia for a few weeks last northern winter and I agree that I saw plenty of men on the streets dressed and groomed in a fashion that an Australian male might consider metrosexual or effeminate. The climate was very cold, so coats, scarves and heavy jackets were de rigueur. I was there to do some trekking and camping, so I was dressed more functionally than fashionably, in warm and waterproof gear. And many on the street were dressed as I was too, surprisingly. I thought I might stick out like Bear Grylls's travel buddy, but no. Quite the norm, I was. Even on the plane to Reykjavik it was the full spectrum of approaches to the problems of wind, rain and cold. Interesting to see, it was.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    If a guy spends more time in front of the mirror, uses more beauty products than I do, has a bigger wardrobe, more shoes and accessories than I do, and has a man bag or three, I would ask him to go shopping with me and ask him for fashion advice. He can be my BFF and will make a lovely lunch date 😁 - Posted from rhpmobile

  • MrMechanic

    MrMechanic

    9 years ago

    Do all that and the other is all fine, look good. But, don't start convos with women about beauty products, they talk about that with their girl mates, sisters and maybe mum.Fine if you want to go directly to friend zone, but if you want to pooch with them then you need to present as manly man.They want a "man' they can admire to some degree, not a man that is being their girl mates.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Eyeliner, foundation, I have to wear it for the camera's otherwise you have to do it again. Ladies love it, and I love to turn them on......................................

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    In days gone by, Knights would ride horses in metal armour, broad sword on their hip, shield on the elbow..... These days, the knights are being dressed in nannys knitted sweater, and armed with an Avon special fanny pack lol :p P.S. Summer.....pigeon eggs?? ;) *chuckles* - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Eggy Face Mask. Separate the whites from two eggs,beat until frothy apply to face and let dry. After twenty minutes wash off with warm water.. Your skin will feel super clean and the pores will be tightened.😇Q

  • madotara69

    madotara69

    9 years ago

    Very straight ? Now your'e 27 years old, your brain by average, broadly speaking and generalising, only is fully developed by the age of 24-25 years old, so you are a young 'very' straight man Kim, What if you were only a little bit straight, or even straight down the line, ruling out extremely straight, thus removing any chance for being bent out of shape (so to speak and such as ) you've only been fully about your wits, for a couple of years, the massage, nails, face mask, done to you 'by someone else !'! Convincing us or yourself ? Paying for the full day spa and a bit of social interaction, a bit of gossip perhaps, regular booking because you're worth it, very much in touch with you're feminine side and as a two year old Man's man by all accounts and with respects too the gay men and any communities there of, 'Very' straight is your own reflection questioning the sexuality of self ! !! ?! ??!! You might find it that you are gay, bi sexual, transexual, pansexual, etc. The world is your oyster, your youth yet to find a swagger, still getting stiffies every seven seconds, at the very least straight is str8m8, the 'very' bit, ? makes you look, 'in the closet' and it does not matter if you are straight, it should not matter if you are gay, what other people think of you, is none your business and I personally have never seen a man, even very straight doing the day spa thing ? and SWB ! ? Straight outta there and 'Run to the Hills' m8. Mado Mado Tara xx

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I love the European flavour, probably repeating myself, but I know exactly what you mean. Even when I was young, I always liked a neck chain on a guy, and unique clothing like the scarf you mentioned. It is more European and very sexy. Any suggestion that's not manly is a pile of poo, not through my eyes anyway. I'll eat them for breakfast

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    through my eyes, I meant

  • magicfingers23

    magicfingers23

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'madotara69' Very straight ? Now your'e 27 years old, your brain by average, broadly speaking and generalising, only is fully developed by the age of 24-25 years old, so you are a young 'very' straight man Kim, What if you were only a little bit straight, or even straight down the line, ruling out extremely straight, thus removing any chance for being bent out of shape (so to speak and such as ) you've only been fully about your wits, for a couple of years, the massage, nails, face mask, done to you 'by someone else !'! Convincing us or yourself ? Paying for the full day spa and a bit of social interaction, a bit of gossip perhaps, regular booking because you're worth it, very much in touch with you're feminine side and as a two year old Man's man by all accounts and with respects too the gay men and any communities there of, 'Very' straight is your own reflection questioning the sexuality of self ! !! ?! ??!! You might find it that you are gay, bi sexual, transexual, pansexual, etc. The world is your oyster, your youth yet to find a swagger, still getting stiffies every seven seconds, at the very least straight is str8m8, the 'very' bit, ? makes you look, 'in the closet' and it does not matter if you are straight, it should not matter if you are gay, what other people think of you, is none your business and I personally have never seen a man, even very straight doing the day spa thing ? and SWB ! ? Straight outta there and 'Run to the Hills' m8. Mado Mado Tara xx Interesting thoughts of great depth. However I do feel content and happy the way I have been leaning all through my life (so far) and do not getaroused nor attracted to the same sex. I was simply reinforcing by using the word 'very' rather than hinting an unsure attitude. Furthermore, I truly think that mens self-worth, sense of care of his health and presentation has increased and his masculinity has stayed (to some extent) the same throughout modern history of mankind.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    TOO much is either a bad thing or still not enough. From the thread title I thought this would be more about narcissism and vanity rather than grooming.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'Chocolatecock72' You'd last half a shift in a coal mine bro. Guess that would be a problem if working in coal mines was the only job people did. Don't think that's the case though. Also, why assume that because the OP likes to take care of his appearance that he would have a problem working in a job where he gets dirty / sweaty? The two things aren't mutually exclusive, and this is a perfect example of attitude that still prevails among some Australians.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Spend some time at a gym..... Most of the lads are taking selfies of their biceps, flexing in front of the mirror and practically dry humping their own reflection. The young men not only take pride in their appearance but can't get enough if it. Although they shit me enormously, and need to be slapped with a dozen turkey for slowing down my workout, I don't see them using too many hair products and facial creams but you can't argue that the young Aussie blokes mostly do take care of their appearance. - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'jeffjohnson1985' Spend some time at a gym..... Most of the lads are taking selfies of their biceps, flexing in front of the mirror and practically dry humping their own reflection. I see that as different to what the OP is talking about. In a very general sense building muscles taps right into traditional notions of what masculinity is supposed to be. Whilst I know that some men cop flack for admiring themselves too much in gym mirrors I think there are different issues going on there and the perception by others is different. Most people aren't surprised that a lot of men like going to the gym to look stronger / bigger, but as the OP pointed out and we've seen in this thread many are still surprised if they buy a pot of facial moisturiser.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    That's cos you don't need to buy a tub of face moisturiser when you can use egg whites lol :p - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I can't argue with your logic. This is an interesting topic and easy to have a bit of fun with. I've had a few chuckles at some of the light hearted shit stirring in this discussion. I do agree that taking care of your skin, teeth hair etc and trying to look ones best is not hard and does not make you 'gay'. However, beyond a certain point, mirror watching and appearance pampering can, in my opinion, get to a stage that is conceited. But seriously - live and let live! - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I personally like when guys look in the mirror, they can see which 'bits' need to be tweaked

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I should go to the gym and just hang out near the mirrored wall

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    ... the one at your place?

  • RHP

    RHP User

    8 years ago

    You are soooo right. - Posted from rhpmobile