Lockout

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  Mischeviouslad

  11 years ago

  ..... levels of alcohol related violence have dropped according to reports I've seem from various sources. The alcohol and club barons can't have it all their own way, even if personal responsibility is necessary with drinkers. I may be responsible, but Mr Drunkknuckle Douchebag may not be. - Posted from rhpmobile

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  Mr_MrsAraps

  11 years ago

  Well if it wasn't for the morons and alcohol fueled violence then it wouldn't be needed.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  130am lockout just doesn't exist anywhere else. So why are we such a stupid country when it comes to alcohol consumption. There is something else that could be addressed - such as a change to our drinking culture. Young people these days get smashed before heading out. For two reasons. Alcohol is expensive in Australia - 100 bucks will get you entry, a couple drinks and a taxi home, and everything shuts at 130am. The idea of having drinks gradually throughout the night is not even an option for most young party animals.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  The jazz bars, the basement, all those nooky places that are fun to go to, they still sell alcohol and the other places, you've just got to pre-plan....... I've enjoyed being able to come out at 2am without having all the drunken louts stumbling about.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  2am? Wouldn't that be the time all the drunken idiots are out and about as they have nowhere else to go? That is my experience anyway. Also I had a look at the stats for violence reduction after the introduction of lockout - and it is true violence has reduced in the King cross. But has increased in the surrounding suburbs. Also it is important to note that these stats shouldn't be taken too seriously as they are just a reflection on the impact of this law in the short term. It is still unknown how people will adapt to this law, and from the looks of it - the drunken idiots are not disappearing. They are simply going elsewhere.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  I believe in addressing the problem. Not creating a quick fix - that makes us stick out as a country too irresponsible to handle ourselves on a night out.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  Was alcohol related violence an actual problem that escalated and required lockouts - or was it a media fueled beat up? I don't recall seeing any analysis that actually supported it - only knee jerk reactions. (Thread jack - I'm more concerned over the laws surrounding freedom of association, the supposed 'anti bikie' laws)

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  They've had a 3am lockout up here for quite awhile, but I can't even give anecdotal personal data on whether it's helping to reduce alcohol-related violence or not (Flinders St East - the main nightclub strip here - has a high incidence of such violence due to demographic and locality factors). My feeling is that in the long term it doesn't, and just moves the problem temporally and spatially. It is just a band-aid solution, until there is a shift in the drinking culture I don't think there will be any significant improvement.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  first time I have heard of it the drinking culture definitely needs to change bringing in curfews is not the way to fix this problem as was mentioned in earlier posts its just a band aid people will just move to another area club owner need to be more responsible and observant instead of thinking of how much money they can make the drunker some one get the more they drink this is a problem that probably cant be fixed

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  I believe is the answer... I was in Sydney about 4 or 5 weekends ago and found myself on the North Shore around Lindfield. There was a small with a jazz/rock band that sold mini pizzas and a few other light snacks... The drinks were the price of gold, but there were still., particularly men, downing mixers like they were going out of style... Suddenly, around 11 pm, we got a visit from two Police officers who hung about and checked a few ID's (and made an arrest for underage drinking). Low and behold, they were back again, about an hour later, doing the same thing again... The place closed at about 1 or 1.30 and the Police were outside in time for the crowd filing out. Surprisingly, there was NO trouble at all and everyone got their cabs and wandered down to the station and all was well. I know Police numbers are a problem and maybe their time is better spent on things of a more dangerous and unsociable nature, but it worked and there was not a single, solitary untoward event... As I said, I just don't know how expensive and manpower intensive it would be to have such a presence in all the trouble spots.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  I really dont think it matters if there's lockouts or not ... When these rowdy drunks are ejected at whatever time they are looking for anyone who looks sideways at them ... And usually it's innocent parties or worse friends of the drunken mess.... And no matter what is created to try and "fix" the problem it's always gonna be around ... Always has been ... - Posted from rhpmobile

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  All problems can be fixed as long as the solution addresses the problem and have trust in the fact that we are not a stupid race. I see lockout as a form of prohibition. And prohibition has been proven over and over again not to work throughout history. And for some reason Australia is one of the slowest countries to realize this. If people have an urge to do something telling them they can't is only going to have short term results. Let's look at some examples, the tax introduced to mixed drinks - the result, kids have turned to spirits. Laws against Marijuana, the result, Australia has one of the highest pot smokers per capita in the world.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  Openly1 - I have to disagree with you on the police presence argument. I mean yes it probably works to a limited extent, but it's by no means the main solution to the problem and in highly crowded 'hotspots' in particular I don't think it makes much difference. On Friday and Saturday nights Flinders St East here is crawling with cops - a few years back there was a concerted push for more policing because of the high rates of alcohol related violence - but every weekend there are still a number of assaults and other incidents / injuries. As you mentioned there are also the issues of financial cost and resourcing; directing most police to dealing with this problem leaves fewer for the many other areas in which they are needed, a double whammy due to both the patrols of the nightspots and subsequently the time spent on processing, paperwork and court appearances when people are charged and / or arrested. And ultimately, relying on police is also just another band-aid, reactive solution; by the time police get involved the violence has usually already occurred and the damage been done. To be an effective preventative measure people would need to view the police presence as a deterrent to their excessive drinking, and it's fairly obvious that few see it that way. So again it comes down to addressing the root causes of the problem, and those are many and complex.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  Why should we rely on the police, to me it is has many issues here. The attitude of the people before they go out drinking has a big influance and the owner of the premises has a duty of care for the non disruptive patrons to provide a safe environment by LAW. Many clubs have ban lists but these people just do not care about anybody but THEMSELVES. So this issue comes back to peer presure to get friends to take them home or keep them at home before they are punch happy.

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  RHP User

  11 years ago

  Quoting 'Luckdragon23' Openly1 - I have to disagree with you on the police presence argument. I mean yes it probably works to a limited extent, but it's by no means the main solution to the problem and in highly crowded 'hotspots' in particular I don't think it makes much difference. On Friday and Saturday nights Flinders St East here is crawling with cops - a few years back there was a concerted push for more policing because of the high rates of alcohol related violence - but every weekend there are still a number of assaults and other incidents / injuries. As you mentioned there are also the issues of financial cost and resourcing; directing most police to dealing with this problem leaves fewer for the many other areas in which they are needed, a double whammy due to both the patrols of the nightspots and subsequently the time spent on processing, paperwork and court appearances when people are charged and / or arrested. And ultimately, relying on police is also just another band-aid, reactive solution; by the time police get involved the violence has usually already occurred and the damage been done. To be an effective preventative measure people would need to view the police presence as a deterrent to their excessive drinking, and it's fairly obvious that few see it that way. So again it comes down to addressing the root causes of the problem, and those are many and complex. Yes... You DO make valid points, with which I agree. I was speaking more of the 'deterrent' affect that the police presence has. Of course, in most case, the violence/vandalism or whatever has already occurred by the time the police are in attendance, but as we both agree, the EFFECT and possibility of a police presence doe serve as a 'Deterrent'... consequently at least curbing the impulse some may have to be involved in unsociable, violent or otherwise unsavory activities. But, in essence, I do agree that it's not THE solution... Just a means to have the perpetrators think twice having seen the police presence often enough to know that it could simply be around the corner... Thanks.

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  RHP User

  10 years ago

  If anyone believes the stats on alcohol violence are real you need to get your head out of the sand. Lockouts are a political move to gain seats and fuel casino spendings end of story. Months prior to lockouts being introduced in QLD the police sat back and wouldn't fine anybody for causing dramas until it was 3am then they nabbed anybody and everybody to show the "crazy" amount of dramas after 3am. Once it got introduced they once again sat back and didn't hastle anyone after 3am to show stats that the lockout was successful. 3 other countries trailed a lockout solution and withdrew it after 6months because it did what it does here, it forced the majority to drink faster before lockout and flared violence in the street for those that missed curfew. It's not a conspiracy theory I witnessed it first hand and was nearly arrested for gathering evidence , we live in a puppet society and you need to watch who pulls the strings - Posted from rhpmobile

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  RHP User

  10 years ago

  As a former hotel and nightclub manager, I have always known that the crux of the problem is the "either a fuck or a fight" mentality of "certain" guys (and yes, you CAN pick 'em pretty easily if you simply watch carefully enough). If by the end of the night, they can't get the former, then they will go for the latter. Obviously, excessive alcohol reduces the chances of the first objective, and increases the likelihood of the second. The primary reason for most single men (particularly in the 18 to 30 year old bracket) is to get laid..... Period. A sweeping generalization?....... Nope! (get real fella's!). When these above mentioned "certain types" eventually hit the streets (pissed and without said "fuck" in tow) they just mill about simply waiting for a chance to go nuts. Solution to the problem? Quite simple really: • Simply water down the drinks OR • Encourage women to put out more often. (Oh yes.. and free taxies as well.... lots of them) Obi1

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  RHP User

  10 years ago

  Quoting 'brisfuncouple78' If anyone believes the stats on alcohol violence are real you need to get your head out of the sand. I think I know a few health professionals who work in hospital EDs on weekend nights who might disagree with you. It seems that you are conflating the issues here. I agree that lockouts are mainly a political reaction that won't help much at all (just like the 'coward punch' laws), and I wouldn't be at all surprised if stats on arrests etc. were deliberately skewed in a way favourable to the governments' positions, but that doesn't mean that there isn't an underlying problem with alcohol fuelled violence in this country.

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  RHP User

  10 years ago

  Working pubs, clubs, car shows, b&s balls..... Not letting the shit in to begin with works better than trying to get them out.... Having good communication between bar staff, security and licensee/nominee is paramount.... But..... Support from bar staff and the licensee/nominee is the biggest issue.... Licensee/nominees just don't get that by building a reputation that they care about their patrons well being sets themselves apart from every other club/pub in their area. This means more than just making donations to alcohol education programmes and gambling services. It means having the balls to ask them to leave at the appropriate time BEFORE problems begin to arise instead of dealing with problems when they erupt. That all said the security staff NEED to be supportive of the patrons that visit. This doesn't mean they stand in corner with their arms folded in an intimidating stance; it means TALKING to people to do their job.....that job has two facets. 1. Protection of people. 2. Maintainence if the peace. You CANNOT maintain the peace by being intimidating and aggressive in your actions. You need to be approachable, friendly but willing to get physical IF a patrons behaviour chooses it. A crowd controller's best weapon is his/her mouth and their brain. It will either get you in the shit or out of it..... - Posted from rhpmobile

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