RHP

RHP User

M66

Maybe one more for the men...

August 15 2015

It's VC Day today (70th anniversary of the Japanese surrender in WWII). Also the anniversary of the 'Battle of Long Tan (Vietnam), but that's another war and subject. My interest here is peoples feelings about the use of the A-Bomb to end the war. I have my opinions, based on much study and years of being a WWII buff and amateur historian on the subject... But STILL, to this day, there are conflicting opinions, some based on feelings and the suffering caused and others based on the lives saved (which are incalculable). So what say you... if anything. I give my opinion and reasons after some others come in... Thanks (I know not really an RHP issue at all. But it is in the "Off Topic" area and we DO all live in this world that is a result, in many ways of what happened in those 6 years of WWII)...

Comments

  • Missb4u

    Missb4u

    9 years ago

    but I know my grandfather was there 12 months later assisting with clean up and rebuilding. The pictures we have show total and utter devastation. I won't express an opinion on whether I think it should or shouldn't have been dropped as I wasn't there and wasn't privy to all the details. People make decisions in the moment based on information they have. in war many atrocities are committed, war is not a pleasant thing and I think we should try to learn from it but not judge those that have to make extreme decisions in those conditions. as a side note and probably something we will never really know is what effects the radiation had even 12 months later right through to this day. My grandfather died from cancer of the tongue and throat and my mum had cancer of the throat, but they were also both smokers my sister and I are cautious of lumps or anything weird in this area. Maybe no correlation at all but we don't really know do we.

  • horneycouplewa

    horneycouplewa

    9 years ago

    being a military wife... I LUV KOBI BEEF Sorry to hard basket i'd rather have sex ;)

  • horneycouplewa

    horneycouplewa

    9 years ago

    My husband a retired US veteran and he is an extremely intelligent individual and well Im not ... In the 70's when Saturday Night live started , there was a skit called DEEP THOUGHTS BY JACK HANDY . Is that where this queston belongs ?

  • Mr_MrsAraps

    Mr_MrsAraps

    9 years ago

    Being a WWII buff as well I will say that the death toll on both sides when US forces took the islands of Okinawa, Iwo Jima and Saipan etc was a major factor as was finally putting an end to the war especially after defeating Germany of dropping the bomb instead of invading the Japanese mainland Not to mention the untold civilian casualties that would have endured from an extensive bombing campaign that would have been needed in prep'ing for any invasion not to mention civilian casualties from any invasion itself. Lesser of two evils prevailed as I think the world just needed peace and at the time the sooner the better. Am certainly glad it's been the first and hopefully only instance of nuclear arms being used in conflicts. Heaven to bid some of the close call stories you hear coming to light from the Cold War era are a pretty scary proposition and one I think humanity would not have survived from. Cheers w. - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    One more for the men?...a rather antediluvian view IMO OP...All war is just terrible...women and children are as much casualties of war as men and in case you haven't noticed women now have a strong presence in the armed forces ..Should there have been bombs dropped on Japan?...My understanding is that the War was almost over and it was a huge mistake causing unbelievable devastation..I grew up in the sixties with the threat of nuclear war ever present ...the anti nuclear movement was strong...Ban the Bomb was what the tee shirts said .. Perhaps you don't mean this post to come across as a dispassionate academic exercise but to me it does..it's a very emotive issue and one for which people will hold differing points of view

  • tall60

    tall60

    9 years ago

    There were many allied prisoners of war from Singapore and elsewhere, who were slave labourers in Japan...one of them said he felt all would have been killed had Japan mainland been attacked...so he felt the atomic bomb saved his and others lives.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I know more about the subject than hubby- I wonder why you feel it is a question for the men!?

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    well this is probably the same question that goes on for centuries of disputes all over the world, the fact of the matter is human inability to move forward and forgive another or be reasonable enough to care live as equals and share is impossible for most. Greed and the need to control and seek ultimate power the forces of evil so attacking or eradicating the opposition is the only action they see fit. War is never the answer the powers that seek control will never empathise , respect or care for a people that stand in there way are different colour or religion, and the powers that control are run by greed and absolute domination will forever be a thorn in the side , of the flowers that bloom beautiful colours and unite the people with love for another and live life in peace and harmony as equals only a dream for most , but we can make a difference to our own lives and the lives of people we can reach and live beside ! understand why share knowledge care respect love forgive !! we can all do that. - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I think I love you xxFreya

  • Twisted_Mister

    Twisted_Mister

    9 years ago

    Allied casualties - dead - were predicted by the General Staff planning the invasion of the Japanese Home Islands. Two million. Considering the Japanese - who today I have no problem with btw - slaughtered and raped their way through China, Manchuria and all South East Asia from 1933 to 1945, including eating POWs in New Guinea in 1942 and 1943, I have no problem with sparing 2 million troops for 200,000 Japanese who were already mobilising with axes and bamboo stakes for the coming invasion. I cringe at the thought of nuclear warfare but in this circumstance I believe the right decision was taken. Lives - brave lives - were saved. - Posted from rhpmobile

  • Twisted_Mister

    Twisted_Mister

    9 years ago

    I would love to live in a world where people universally loved each other and there was communal respect, dignity and so on. But we don't live in that world. We live in a world where people elsewhere actively seek to do us harm. Serious harm, and wishing it away just won't work. If we want to keep staying safe at night and enjoying what is really a first class existence compared to most countries in the world, then we must be prepared to crush those who would take that away from us. Please note I'm not having a crack at either of you. I'm reminded of the old (paraphrased) quote - 'Peaceful people sleep peacefully in their beds only while rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.' - Posted from rhpmobile

  • TallBaldSexy

    TallBaldSexy

    9 years ago

    And quoting phrases like that....Army? Airforce?

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'Freya70' One more for the men?...a rather antediluvian view IMO OP...All war is just terrible...women and children are as much casualties of war as men and in case you haven't noticed women now have a strong presence in the armed forces ..Should there have been bombs dropped on Japan?...My understanding is that the War was almost over and it was a huge mistake causing unbelievable devastation..I grew up in the sixties with the threat of nuclear war ever present ...the anti nuclear movement was strong...Ban the Bomb was what the tee shirts said .. Perhaps you don't mean this post to come across as a dispassionate academic exercise but to me it does..it's a very emotive issue and one for which people will hold differing points of view You're right, I didn't mean for it to be dispassionate at all... I simply assumed that the vast majority of women would not be overly interested, as I've found when I discuss WWII (being as I said, a bit of a buff... Not only the war itself but the causes, politics, etc. And the hope that we've learnt)... So my apologies if it offended any ladies. As has been mentioned, The casualties that had been suffered taking the islands of Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa (where hundreds of civilians jumped from cliffs to their deaths, because they had been told that the US troops would murder and rape them) were appalling on BOTH sides. (So imagine the situation if millions of Japanese civilians were facing the invasion of their land by the US???). The Japanese, prior to the two bombs being dropped had NO concept of defeat or surrender and would most certainly have defended their land to the last civilian. An invasion of mainland Japan would have cost 'conservatively' up to 500,000 allied lives and millions of Japanese armed forces and civilians. As much as the decision to use the weapon would have been 'agonizing', it was, I believe necessary, given these facts. Some have suggested that a delegation of the Japanese should have been given the chance to witness the 'Trinity' testing of the bomb in the U.S., which it is suggested would have made them seriously consider surrender after witnessing the power... They got a demonstration on August 6th at Hiroshima and DID NOT even communicate. Then they got a second at Nagasaki 3 days later... It took them 6 more days (not knowing that the US had no more bombs), to surrender. Based purely on this, a demonstration aimed to act as a means to prove they should surrender would have had no effect whatsoever. So, as horrible and as sad as it was (and is) I feel that there was really no choice. I firmly believe that millions of lives(mainly Japanese) were saved by it's use... Unfortunately, a terrible force was unleashed and the genii had been let out of the bottle and, like yourself, I grew up in the 60's also... and as a result, although not as serious here in Australia, it was discussed and caused me nightmares as a young child who didn't understand... Thanks

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    ...and many civilians had already been killed in the relentless bombing campaigns in Germany and Japan, but to drop one, then A SECOND atomic weapon on civilian targets was going too far in my opinion. Was it a political decision to choose civilian targets over military ones, even though the war was decided? Of course it was.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting ''Fr33Spirits I know more about the subject than hubby- I wonder why you feel it is a question for the men!? As I explained to Freya just now... An innocent misconception that I've leant by experience, that women are generally not interested (Not necessarily not knowledgeable)...

  • Twisted_Mister

    Twisted_Mister

    9 years ago

    Been there, done that, similar profession now... - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    I grew up commemorating VJ day, I've heard of VP day but now we have VC day.I wonder how much revisionism I'll live to see... I don't believe it's our call to judge the decision to employ those terrible weapons. I firmly believe that I owe my very existence to those bombs. The word surrender does not enter Japanese vocabulary. Lest we forget.

  • Mr_MrsAraps

    Mr_MrsAraps

    9 years ago

    yes of course by 1945 the outcome of the war was already decided in the pacific. Some would argue that by even 1943 the result was already decided. But ..... And a big but here, the Japanese warrior code of not surrendering only gave the allies either two options for getting Japan to surrender Invade the Japanese mainland till they eventually forced their way to where the last remnants of the Japanese HQs were in much the same vain as the allies had to advance through Nazi Germany and then street by street through Berlin. Or drop the bomb. Either way the cost of soldiers and civilian casualties in an invasion would have been massive compared to what they were from the bomb. - Posted from rhpmobile

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'Jack_Denials' I grew up commemorating VJ day, I've heard of VP day but now we have VC day.I wonder how much revisionism I'll live to see... I don't believe it's our call to judge the decision to employ those terrible weapons. I firmly believe that I owe my very existence to those bombs. The word surrender does not enter Japanese vocabulary. Lest we forget. Soory... My typing error... Was VJ Day and now VP day... Apologies

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Good soldiers in a bad war...Lest we forget.

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    Quoting 'Araps' yes of course by 1945 the outcome of the war was already decided in the pacific. Some would argue that by even 1943 the result was already decided. But ..... And a big but here, the Japanese warrior code of not surrendering only gave the allies either two options for getting Japan to surrender Invade the Japanese mainland till they eventually forced their way to where the last remnants of the Japanese HQs were in much the same vain as the allies had to advance through Nazi Germany and then street by street through Berlin. Or drop the bomb. Either way the cost of soldiers and civilian casualties in an invasion would have been massive compared to what they were from the bomb. - Posted from rhpmobile Yes...that is the official reasoning for the atomic bombings that we have been fed since the end of the Second World War and it is a sound argument, but the US could have attempted other less costly ways to end the War. They had total air superiority, they could have used precision bombing to take out whichever heads of state were required...but it's also quite possible that, with this new wonder weapon in their hands, there was no better way to test it's short and long term effects on live subjects than in the field. The lives of foreign civilians are cheap.And the US has never seemed to shrink from spending the lives of its soldiers in any war since.

  • TallBaldSexy

    TallBaldSexy

    9 years ago

    respect for that mate. Suggest It's not completely impossible that given your "isolated" location & in light of your OP, your self esteem may have taken a hit somewhere along the way?......Out of the ashes of a prolonged divorce process, I realised mine has - yes even after 20years of Martial Arts. The turning point for me Was realising & acting on that. Maybe yours needs review too. Take Care

  • RHP

    RHP User

    9 years ago

    It's history, it was dropped, we will never know the consequences of not dropping them, but suffice to say the fact that atomic weapons have never been used again speaks volumes. Just be thankful Abbott doesn't have a big red button !