T63
Mental Health
October 29 2015
Comments
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Seachange
9 years ago
I sit under a tree at a nearby park close to work, checking my emails as i enjoy my lunch in this beautiful mild sunny spring weather. Life is seemingly beautiful and I am feeling blessed. As I read your post, I am brought to ponder some of life's realities. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I was not aware of this as I hardly use any of the medical facilities nor services as offered publicly or privately and for that I am grateful that I and my boys, are healthy. I feel the despair in your post and I can empathize with you and those in dire situations. I am in slight disbelief at the terrible state of our health system and I think more should be doen to educate our society on these issues. I have come across 2 suicides of young people in my life, in the last 5 years. One is the the young husband (and was a new dad) of the daughter of a good family friend. And the other 13yo girl, a sister of my son's good friend, who killed herself due to online bullying. Both preventable and both very tragic. It also left a big void in the lives of those they left behind. that alone, they need ongoing counselling for all. It brings to reality the fragility of life and no matter what, we all matter to someone. It is heartbreaking. Mental illness is a hidden killer. We are someone's child, sister/brother, mother/father, friend. We matter. I have no helpful thing to say or recommend at this moment but to say I hear you and perhaps I should look into supporting some NGOs/charities that focus on providing free assistance to those suffering. Take care.
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RHP User
9 years ago
This is something I feel very strongly about & I could go on forever on the subject. But I'll try not to. Firstly, I'm grateful that we do at least have this option, while acknowledging at the same time that it is nowhere near enough. And although $90 is a substantial amount, the residual cost is still significant enough to put it out of reach of some of those who need it it most. There is no silver bullet when it comes to alleviating mental health issues... in a lot of cases, it's a combination of both pharmaceutical treatment as well as pyschiatric/psychological treatment. And they're treatments that take time to be effective. While I have no issue with the fact that pharmaceutical intervention may be required, I am concerned with how quickly and frequently it is prescribed. It seems to be the 'easy fix' My son was 14 when he had his first severe attack of depression, and our GP immediately put him on anti-depressants. I was the one who had to ask about and source counselling - it wasn't offered automatically as part of treatment. I think big Pharma has a lot to answer for in that respect. My boy has had two subsequent episodes since then, and again was prescribed medication. He chose not to take it, and relied on the counselling to get him through. It is terrifying to watch someone you love deal with depression, I lived in the grip of fear for many weeks. Those were the darkest days I've ever experienced, and while he's healthy and happy at the moment, it could come back at any time. So much more I could say, but I'll leave it at that for now.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Depression and Anxiety are terrible afflictions, and they certainly have a huge impact on society. Not just emotionally and physically, there is a great financial burden. That being said, like all service provisions in our country, someone has to pay for it. I would love to live in a utopian world where healthcare in all its facets was subsidised but this is not the reality. I am thankful we are able to even receive subsidised care for services - we would be much worse off without that. To use a somewhat skewed example: Not many Cardiologists would provide you with free visitations for the life of your illness (which can be many years) Just my thoughts
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AnnieWhichway
9 years ago
Would not ever expect free visitations. A simple rebate across the board for all visitations as per what we get with medical doctors. Physical Health. Mental Health. Dental Health. Health is health.What the brain/mind is of less importance than your body. Body does not work too well with an afflicted mind.
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PatchworkGirl
9 years ago
Maybe I was just lucky, but I had great experiences with medicare and the level of mental health support available to me in recent years, when I desperately needed it. I was going through a traumatic time, and suffering severe depression and anxiety, with bouts of self harm and suicidal thoughts. I was put on a mental health plan by my GP, which gave me access to rebates for a number of visits, which was then extended. My psychologist worked closely with my GP and got a third extension on my plan, which allowed for a fewer amount of additional visits at a reduced rate, but by the time I had used up all of those my maximum threshold on medical expenses had been reached with medicare, so the amount I had to pay for any services dropped anyway. I think in general our mental health system could be better, but it's far superior to many other countries. There are a great many people who DO slip through the cracks - who aren't as lucky as I was, to find a mental health professional who put in the time and effort to maximise the care she could provide me. And the fact that I was in a position to be able to cover the out of pocket costs is something I don't take for granted - many people aren't that privileged. I think if treatment for mental health was viewed as a common right, as much as treatment for physical health is, there'd be less stigma attached to mental health treatments and conditions, and a more concerted focus on ensuring that more people are aware of, and able to access, mental health treatments available to them.
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RHP User
9 years ago
plus there's the fact that if they put more dollars into psychology, counselling, and other community-based services, governments would save a lot of money in the long run through reductions in emergency and hospital admissions and other resources taken up by acute mental health events e.g. police attendances. But as usual our short-sighted political system just doesn't take that into account.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Annie - I wasn't suggesting it was a bad idea, i agree there should be better subsidies, but once again the money has to come from somewhere. Luckdragon - The government would perhaps save money in the long run - mental health certainly has an increasing burden of cost across the country. I would love to see more money go into mental health services, lord knows we need it. I like to think it will come in the future. I see one major issue right now however, counselling/therapy/CBT - these all take time. If we subsidised the provision of these services, where would it end. Leading neuroscientists tell us that habits and behaviours never disappear, even after we stop giving in to them - so theoretically, the subsidy would need to go on forever!
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RHP User
9 years ago
It's called the tragedy of the commons, anything free gets used and abused until there is none left for anyone.I suspect the mental health plan is a bit like hospital emergency departments clogged up with cold and flu patients, trouble is the one you turn away has a fatal disease !My daughter used the mental health plan through a program called headspace, now she may have been attention seeking she may not but what matters to me is she is still here, doing well and not hiding razor blades in her room.
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RHP User
9 years ago
There are waiting lists for counselling on the public/community health systems (free or heavily discounted), but when I enquired, the wait was often more than a month. Yes there are also free phone services or and other support, but to see a psychologist in any hurry, yes, you do need the referral and/or to pay the total amounts outright, depending on the number of sessions needed. I'm lucky, I can afford the outright amounts regardless, which I did pay twice of my own will, before getting the referral for the rebates. But of course, if you do go over your 10 a year, it will cost you a lot and many people can't afford that, so go without for a while as the OP states. Regardless, in my case I will make sure to "ration" remaining annual sessions out over the rest of the year (lucky as it's almost over anyway). I think the limited number of rebates does hurt the neediest the most. If you have a lot of other support (friends, family etc), then in a perfect world you should be able to get by with fewer sessions. But those without such personal support, their problems are compounded by the fact they feel more alone and are more reliant on the system. Remember, the cost of subsidising psychological treatment is often much less than the side-effect costs of not providing it. So no, there shouldn't be a cap on the number of rebated visits, the same as I can see a GP as many times as necessary, which is also covered. The other effect is, by seeing private counsellors more, you are taking the demand off the public system in more than one way.
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neapolitan_guy
9 years ago
A great example of the benefits from being proactive rather then reactive is mental health, somewhat like early intervention in child education. If we discuss, identify and address early a lot can be nipped in the bud. Though we need a system and support for those whose situation is developed or persistent as well. Perhaps only when being in a place of not being able to function is the need really understood, it's about feelings l'm trying to translate. I feel the pain of anyone that reached their limit and then some and from that the feeling of thankfulness for help, support and comfort and l feel what your saying Annie about the need for expansive support. I feel there is a need to make it better, it's a great system but it's needs are changing and it needs to be better. I often wonder who supports those that support others, who talks with the people l talked to for example, where is their balance. Strength to all. Cheers
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AnnieWhichway
9 years ago
Subsidized counseling required a referral and a mental health plan from a GP. It isn't something that you can rock up to like an emergency department. Adequate training to the GP's can prevent a lot of the abuse that the emergency departments get and therefore minimize unnecessary cost.
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AnnieWhichway
9 years ago
of mental health. Mental health is just as important as physical health I think most would agree. Can you imagine the policy being applied to physical health. 10 visits per year to your GP. After that, you pay the lot.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Its not just emergency dept's that are abused in hospitals here it is also the clinics. I worked in one department doing the clinics and the number of people who did not turn up for appointments was unbelievable. It meant that many others missed out and the waiting lists got longer. If people paid they might actually turn up. The problem is bigger than Hospitals and what governments provide. I've lived in a culture where community life is paramount and mental health is not such a big issue. I have lived with depression and anxiety too but I'm not sure that having access to professional services is necessarily going to solve this huge issue. I have a sense that there is something missing in our modern lives that services can never provide. - Posted from rhpmobile
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PatchworkGirl
9 years ago
Quoting 'inregulation5' I would love to see more money go into mental health services, lord knows we need it. I like to think it will come in the future. I see one major issue right now however, counselling/therapy/CBT - these all take time. If we subsidised the provision of these services, where would it end. Leading neuroscientists tell us that habits and behaviours never disappear, even after we stop giving in to them - so theoretically, the subsidy would need to go on forever! Not necessarily inregulation5. If counselling/ therapy/ CBT is effective, whether in combination with other treatments and medication or on its own, it can provide the skills necessary for a person to be able to manage their habits and behaviours themselves into the future - that is, of course, assuming that the mental health issue is a result of purely behavioural issues. Often it's more complex than that. I have found, for example, that with a combination of CBT therapy, medication, and some work on my personal schema, I've been able to develop some much better strategies to cope with difficulties in my life. I'm looking at weaning of my meds soon, and will always be aware of the option of possible revisits to my fabulous psychologist if needed, but mostly I'm coping ok now. This is the case for many people who need mental health interventions. Yes, there are, and always will be, those for whom ongoing help and treatment is required. I liken it to physical ailments though. My issues were like some compound fractures, with some internal physical damage, that needed some intense ongoing treatment, but once healing has taken place, I should be pretty much ok. That's what most people require in mental health interventions. There are more severe cases, like complex multi-faceted mental health issues, which require extensive ongoing treatment - like my mother's diabetes and blood pressure issues. They will always need to be medicated, and monitored, and managed. My apologies for the potential over-simplification of mental health issues above - I know it's a complex issue, and one I'm very passionate about, particularly in terms of access to services for teens and the disadvantaged, and the stigma associated with seeking mental health support. I'm sure if I read over this with fresh eyes tomorrow, I'll notice a whole heap of stuff I should have included, and probably some far better ways I could have phrased it. But it's been a long day here, and my eyes hurt - perhaps a good sign I should get off the computer and go to bed, huh?
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'Whateverway' of mental health. Mental health is just as important as physical health I think most would agree. Can you imagine the policy being applied to physical health. 10 visits per year to your GP. After that, you pay the lot. I think - that future is closer than we all would like to believe.
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Hottie1
9 years ago
There isn't a cost I wouldn't pay but agree with you Annie, the cost is huge (physically, emotionally and financially) Trying to find an adolescent counsellor close enough to a small country town has been horrendous but I've just found another one after much research , which is nearly and hour away from us. I do have the most amazing GP who is about to extend my daughter's mental health plan for a third time. I don't know what the criteria are but I'm grateful. The cost is huge and the people who need it don't get it :( like astrild, I know it's 'not solved' but is an ongoing commitment to the mental health of my child. I wish I had a solution 😘😘 Mary xx
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QLDtwo4fun
9 years ago
I live in an area with reasonable public transport, but I still choose to own a car, and a motor bike. Why: so I'm not reliant on the quirks of public transport. I also choose to comprehensively issue my car and bike, I'm not planning to have an accident. These are choices most people in Australia make, yet we don't apply that rationale to our own health care. I know the cost of private health insurance is high, its a cost I'm prepared to pay, I'm not planning on being sick. The cost of a few years of top cover health insurance for a family is the cost of the overseas holiday we haven't had. It's a risk mitigation choice we make. Why: we aren't depended on a the public health system, we can choose doctors, hospitals, timing of procedures, allied health etc as and when we need to, no waiting lists.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Quoting 'QLDtwo4fun' we aren't depended on a the public health system, we can choose doctors, hospitals, timing of procedures, allied health etc as and when we need to, no waiting lists. but you're part of a privileged group that can afford what I'm assuming is a high level of private cover. Plus we're talking about mental health and private health cover offers no to minimal coverage for mental health conditions, depending on the policy. Even with a top level of cover you would still be significantly out of pocket if you had a serious and long-term mental health condition.
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Seachange
9 years ago
Choice.. Pffffft!!! Quoting 'QLDtwo4fun' I live in an area with reasonable public transport, but I still choose to own a car, and a motor bike. Why: so I'm not reliant on the quirks of public transport. I also choose to comprehensively issue my car and bike, I'm not planning to have an accident. These are choices most people in Australia make, yet we don't apply that rationale to our own health care. I know the cost of private health insurance is high, its a cost I'm prepared to pay, I'm not planning on being sick. The cost of a few years of top cover health insurance for a family is the cost of the overseas holiday we haven't had. It's a risk mitigation choice we make. Why: we aren't depended on a the public health system, we can choose doctors, hospitals, timing of procedures, allied health etc as and when we need to, no waiting lists. I think you are missing the point and the OP may correct me. A bit of compassion and empathy goes a long way. Indeed you are lucky you are able to have that 'choice' as you may be more financially fluid that most of the people who are in dire need of the services. I know of people who have fallen between the cracks because due to mental illness. they have lost their jobs, family and even close to being homeless. if not already they are poverty stricken, homeless youth, or pensioners and can hardly provide food for themselves. So you say they have a choice? What choices have they got? In one women's workshop I volunteer at, the mother would go for a day or two without a meal so that her young would eat. How is that for risk mitigation. Leave the comfort of your suburban home and look around you. Most of the people who really need the help are people who are unable to fend for themselves, much less hold down a job. So lucky you, eh? My son's ex girlfriend a couple years back was constantly kicked out of her home by her mentally unstable mother who verbally and emotionally abused her. She would then go to her dad to live for a while until he became abusive as well, as he was controlling. I met him. I have witnessed the trauma in this beautiful young woman as she sought shelter among her friends and my home so she can continue doing her VCE studies. She finished her VCE and is now taking a break and working. She has moved away from home. She is much happier and can see a better future for herself but has a long way to go. What help did she get from the government re. handling her depression? Hardly anything. She got a GP to give her access to Psychiatrists which helped her. I don't know how many sessions as we did not really talk about it. She did consider herself lucky she did have some support from friends as her family support was nil. So you see, being indifferent does not help the situation. Indifference and apathy in modern society is up on the rise and very sad. These attitudes break down the bonds of our community. Because that is what we are, a community. I always point this out to my kids and make them aware that we are not an island. If we turn our back from people in dire need, we might as well dig up the grave we intend to bury them in. My opinion.
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RHP User
9 years ago
I had no idea of that Annie and I have frequented these places for over twenty years. I probably would never had done so if it were not for my mothers concerns as I was fine to just give my life away. Yes I have a mental disorder and frankly I am not too concerned about the rebates and more concerned for the help that isn't actually available. Maybe 7 years ago I approached Centrelink for help as I just couldn't get anywhere their reply was sorry we can only offer you a pension here is a 300 question survey to judge whether you are eligible. What a toss. Now here is where I hope I am not wrong in saying this but I do understand why there is only a 10 visit maximum for rebates. The mental health section is inundated with people and many of those don't quite need that and can abuse the system wrongly (not that they know they are doing so) when they can just see a doctor and he can prescribe medication to alleviate whatever one may be going through at the time. I suppose what I am trying to say is there is a huge difference between being down type depression (see a doctor) and clinical depression (need the mental health sector). I have too often seen people who are down type depressed and on medication for far to long because they relied on it at the time life had been hard or they are upset over something that has happened, these things are part of life and gradually subside but when you see clinical depression it is much more severe and sadly something that does not just dissipate. Even with my bipolar in my depressive states they are nothing on those I know with clinical depression. My apologies if my saying this upsets or offends anyone happy to have anyone pull me up on that. Wish I could tell you something of the policy side you were wishing to know Annie but politics and me aren't connected sorry. But I do know there must be something more done. Happy days one and all
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PatchworkGirl
9 years ago
For some people it's a choice, but for many it is not. I grew up surrounded by people who weren't able to make the kind of choices involving purchasing not only one, but two forms of privately owned transport. I work in a community where choices involve what bills can be put off for a few more weeks so that families can afford school supplies and food - there's no way the cost of private health cover could be factored into that equation. There are a great many choices people make in their lives, but I never take for granted the choices that are open to me that a great many other people in our society don't have the luxury of making.
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RHP User
9 years ago
Anxiety and depression are the fastest growing illnesses...I work with young people and I see the impact it has on their work and the utter lack of understanding..many students are considered to be just lazy and then they identify with being lazy and or stupid....I try try and support them to see the,selves in a different wayxxFrys
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RHP User
9 years ago
that after having lived in 2 countries prior to Australia on a permanent basis I think I have a fair basis of comparison in regards to healthcare.. Annie's statement " government and doctors medicare methodology which seems to be based around saving money rather than servicing the community in an efficient way." is true and -sadly- does not have to be elaborated upon too much..we all know examples :( Healthcare in Australia is a business -just like in the USA. IF you are entitled (and even this entitlement is restricted) you get BASIC care - the bare minimum...such as 10sessions of mental health support where AFTER one paid 200AUD upfront get back 90AUD - not even HALF OF IT! That is a disgrace... In other countries - and I am sure fellow expats can contribute the same- these services are either completely free in the public system (in exchange for the tax you and everyone else contributed) or have a minimal fee. GP visits are for example FREE in the UK, a prescription costs 6GBP (approx 15AUD) - period..Does not matter how many and how expensive the drug you got prescbed - you pay 6GBP. Public hospitals address "non urgent" surgeries within a reasonable timeframe- the surgery I was told here that I have to wait 11MONTHS for, would have been dealt with within 2 weeks in the the UK (in the public system) ...the list goes and on and on...sadly.. In general the BEST facilities and doctors in the UK are in the PUBLIC sector - the private system is maintained for purely optional procedures (nose jobs and alike)....But here in Australia if you need treatment the public system is very likely to reject you or make you wait MONTHS thereby pushing people to the private sector. People who haven't got the means of paying the fee for "private" care are left behind in Australia -and frankly, I am constantly surprised how Australians are accepting this as "way of life" - it should not be...
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RHP User
9 years ago
*sits twitching in the corner and notices people staring quite obviously* Yep....it's more acceptable if it's physically visible - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
9 years ago
Well, myself and sibling - depression, teen child with issues, went through breast cancer with the ex, have had shoulder surgery and rehab myself. All have been handled professionally and expediently, no complaints here.
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