M36
Monogamish Sex at Dawn
September 28 2012
Comments
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RHP User
12 years ago
Great post, 4playsexNcuddles :) I was actually talking about this over lunch today with a guy off here. I can't contribute as I've never been swinging and/or had an open relationship, so I'll be keeping an eye on this post.
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RHP User
12 years ago
and never being in a open relationship.In Theory it all sounds very good......But there is no emotions in theory !!!!I actually believe that if you really want to grow and deepen your experiences....try to find more intimacy and deeper connection with your partner.There are incredible areas to experience with your love one if you feel like taking the time and putting the effort.I think ( and I have no personal experience ) that playing around with others can be destructive to a long term relationship.I probably will be crucified for this comment....But as I said I have no personal experience ....It is just a feeling that I have.Good luck in your search
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RHP User
12 years ago
And I think both can work or fail. I'm suited to monogamy but I don't have too many rules. A deep, loving, trusting connection can be a foundation for all sorts of relationship arrangements. Whether you're monogamous or monogamish I guarantee you you'll have to work hard at holding your relationship together and riding out the stormy times. I don't think the relationship construct is the issue - though monogamish certainly can add extra challenges - I think willingness to grow as a person and support your partner to do the same is the key. I had one overriding vow that I made to my husband. I promised to love him for as long as it lasted and that he would be the first person to know if I fell out of love. I also promised, as part of that, to honour our commitment by doing all I possibly could to make our relationship work. I made good on all of those promises and as a result, or parting was with love and we're still best friends now. What you bring to the relationship is more important, I think, than what you call it. I completely agree that an open relationship can strengthen connection and love. I agree more with NoFuzz though - I think people are often far too quick to look outside their relationship for whatever it is they're wanting, rather than looking inside it. In that respect, monogamish as a way of adding to a relationship has an attraction for me. But monogamish as a selfish indulgence, or band aid solution - not so much.
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Cheekyarses
12 years ago
Great topic...I think that if more and more couples were to talk openly about what they really want in a relationship and if that included seeing other people while still in the marriage, having mmf mff mfmf open marriage, then i think more power to them....But for this to work there still must be alot of trust and lots of communication.... But it can work and I also believe that if more and more people were to step outside their comfort zone and try new things alot of marriages, relationships would be saved - im not saying all of them would be though.I will be following this topic and i might even read the book you read too xxxxx
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Paradisepair
12 years ago
We wouldn't be here, doing what we're doing if we weren't introduced to the concept of Monogamish - loving, stable relationships which one way or another occasionally introduce other parties. Sex at Dawn makes a good argument that we're genetically inclined to share as a pack, the principal of it taking a village to raise a child on some level cross over to sex and sharing. Lots of arguments about the chase for superior sperm and other interesting theories on why it's natural. The understanding of what could be possible for us as a couple and the acceptance of dropping the fear and jealously came primarily from tapping into Savage Love.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I had never a relationship as a swinger. And I am honest I wouldn’t like it. However that’s a very personal issue. For me a relationship should be an open communication, loving and respect for each other. And yes oh God we go through ups and downs, I believe this makes the relationship stronger there is so much to gain with being honest. I don’t believe in relationships where one party takes the other prisoner and denies sex as a punishment. Again we are all highly sexual beings. I have only been in one relationship in my life and I would be still there when death wouldn’t have parted us. Oh it was a very wild ride; each of us had big strong minds and opinions of how life should be handled. I found the longer you are together and have to get trough lives hurdles you need to keep the communication going honestly, then you are a great team. Yes the sex life can be on the backburner a bit when the children come along, but then you pick it up when they get older have romantic get a ways and always, always talk. Send each other notes, this makes it so exciting, lol. Now in my stage of life after being on my own for 14 years things have changed, I have changed. I could live with two males, I could love two males but I would not sleep with them together. I am to much a single minded person. I want to have each on my own, enjoy intimacy with each on my own. When I look around me I can see many people are afraid of a relationship and it’s mostly men. I can understand… most have been taken to the cleaner. Sorry to all the women who have been to, but be honest most men have then women. So to start a new relationship is a dangerous task for men financially. But this is another topic we could start. We as a society have not found an equal ground here yet. We are still out to punish each other then finding a great solution, First, women where left high and dry had to fight for survival and now it’s the male who is left in this stage. Back to monogamy, I like it; it is fun to work on a meaningful relationship. It is challenging and rewarding. Cheers Litonya
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RHP User
12 years ago
until my partners found out... Damn it!! *grins* caveman.. by fcking nature!!
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RHP User
12 years ago
what does 'monogamy' have to do with 'swinging'? monogamy is about relationships.....ie 'spouses'...and 'swinging' is about sex..... we are monogamous, in that we are in a committed, one on one relationship, and we play...no big deal...the 'play' is exactly that.....'play'......
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RHP User
12 years ago
Sex at Dawn is indeed an excellent book ,the authors make an interesting case for why monogamy is not our natural state.A few years ago the Swedes did some research and discovered the monogamy gene,they concluded that it exists in very few men and not at all in women. Marriage is a post agrarian practice and was originally based on property not religion,when humans started to grow crops ,fence land and own it.Even today in some societies there are arranged marriages usually based on economic reasons.The line in the marriage ceremony ''who gives this woman to this man" is indeed a remant of this practice, as women were considered the property of their fathers and then passed on to their husbands when they married. The practice of monogamy was to ensure the patrilineal line continued,property usually passed from father to son. Marriage for reasons of romantic love, historically speaking,is fairly modern.As a concept, Eleanor of Aquitaine popularised the notion of romantic love at her Courts of Love in the 12th century. Perhaps we have outworn the notion of monogamy because the reasons for it being important in our culture no longer exist.Most of us are at best serial monogamists,few couples today would have only ever had, one sexual partner. The authors of Sex At Dawn wrote this book because they were apalled at the high divorce rate in the USA in particular, where most marriages end due to sexual infedelity .They are suggesting that as a society we should consider many different permutations of relationship,polyamory and polygamy amongst them.The so called nuclear family for most people today is a failure ,blended families,and single parent families are no longer uncommon. I would assume that most people here do not practice sexual monogamy,but most would have or perhaps be seeking, a significant other to have a close emotional bond with,the tricky bit is how to find the perfect partner or partners to meet our emotional and our sexual needs without hurting ourselves or others in the process.
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RHP User
12 years ago
If it were, why is it that our natural urges pull us another way. A happily married couple , it took us years of struggling with our inner feelings before realising attraction to another person is not the big no no we once thought.There was a time I felt uncomfortable when another woman was paying attention to Mr JJ and he the same.. Then one day we sat down and had one of them open realistic discussions and found we thought the same way. We agreed that being attracted to another person does not automatic-ley mean we dont love each other the way we should . Far from it. Instead' we found we became more open to each other and able to discuss the type of thing you usually reserve for your girlfriends over a coffee... Saying what you really have in mind, instead of dancing around the subject with untruths, we put it out there and now its just normal..Now' ... we know what we want and have a nice protective attitude towards each other.. It is much better than pretending other attractive people we would like to bed dont exsist..
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RHP User
12 years ago
Agree mikeandshell... No idea! Strange...hey
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Cheekyarses
12 years ago
Agreed 'just juice' Xxxx
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RHP User
12 years ago
I have had two "relationships" that involved swinging but as stated above..monogamy and swinging are two completely different issues and Mike/Shel nailed that one With these two long term relationships I was originally their swing partner (they wanted a woman to hook up with to attend swing events with, so thats kinda of how we met...one I met from here... - I happily agreed to that so there was no confusion there..this suited my lifestyle at the time...) the more time we spent together though, well we eventually "fell in love" which was fine, but when we got serious with each other..well.. .I wanted monogamy and they said they wanted that too (as in they would both stop seeing their other FB) . I wasnt opposed to continue swinging as a couple......but in both these relationships it was actually the men that said..lets stop swinging for a while and focus on each other - I agreed to this..and for a while it was fine (or so I thought) .... so for 6 months or more we were all monogamous.....I missed swinging but I was happy playing house. But apparently the same rules dont apply. I shift work..(sorry about that but I do have a career) , and thats when both my partners starting screwing around on me....now I accept that it was just sex..I dont have a problem with that..what pissed me off was..the lies and sneaking around that went with it..neither of my partners had enough balls to say.".Hey we have given up swinging.but Im not happy with that and I miss that and I want to go back to doing that OR alternatively I want a open relationship "...the playing field was not level, I was never told or informed, nor was there a opendiscussion . Just lies, lies and more lies....they wanted it all...the little Mrs at home, but their fucks during the day...oh hang on...but when I said I wanted that too, mmmm well they didnt go down so well either.....they were both opposed to that...in their minds they were enough for me, but apparently I wasnt enough for them. Double standards ?? A interesting by point on both these men...neither of these men had any interests like golf or fishing or sailing or footy..whatever..and neither of these two men had mates...they are both loners...so I wonder if they had other interests, fucking around may have been secondary ( I wonder how much of it was boredom?) .so when I was shift working they could have actually enjoyed life with their mates and other interests. I was their world, as in I was the center of it, so when I was off working, they didnt appear to know what to do with themselves... And then their casual fucks during the day, couldnt accept thats exactly what they were...fucks for fun, between school hours, ...and then the grief really started when these ladies, starting getting clingy and heavy I thought in both cases I was to blame..I was the common denominator in both these relationships so therefore what was wrong with me...???? It took a long time to realise nothing... I met two very selfish men, who both believed they could have it all and screw the consequences...both were/are addicted to the thrill of the chase, the pursuit and conquering of a lady for a hour or so......and sadly I met them one after the other. Both of them told me not to take it personally but I did take it personally when they were lying and sneaking around on me and brought a lot of grief into our home (stalker issues) Because I loved them both, if they had come to me, and said would I be ok to a open relationship, I would have said yes..I loved them both so much that their happiness did count for everything,,....but by the time those open and frank discussions were on the table, the damage had already been done..and as I was to find..once they lied to me about screwing around, they actually started lying about other issues in our lives...so I ended both relationships. Both of them are now in new relationships -( one of them is getting married tomorrow) and both of them are screwing around on their women...........I know this for a fact .....(no Im not the other women-Ive just stayed friends with them and have seen both of them within the last two weeks and they have blatanty told me - somehow this fact made me feel better..see its not just me they screw around on !!!) Im not saying that my men have to monogamous...I would never expect that from a future partner again, because I do not believe it is within our human nature to be faithful....I love the idealogy behind marriage, etc, but I do not believe it is realistic , however I do want a partner that wants share and play TOGETHER...and not lie.....and whats good for him is good for me....equality Am I asking too much ? For the rite man, I am open to many many things, but to me, a real man is one that can communicate what he wants and needs within our relationship and please give me the respect that I may want/need the same... We negotiate our work contracts each year, why cant we negotiate our "relationship" contracts each year as well.....go up for a performance review once a year, set goals, take on board positive feedback and work hard for promotions The romantic side of me (oh yes Im the original Elizabeth Bennett)...woud love to believe in"The One" and live happily ever after.....but Im now learning that the most significant relationship I now have in my life, is with myself
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Cassy_74
12 years ago
I dont believe its a natural thing to be monogamus, its something that has to be worked on !!!! It has taken me awhile to realise, but everytime I have been in a "proper" relationship I have ended up miserable. I am too much of a physical person and admire the "qualities" of lots of people. I can be emotionally monogamus to a person and have all that attachment, but physically my body belongs to me and i dont what i want with it............but I would also do it with respect and consideration for my partner if I had one.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I am monogamous to 2 guys and love it. I have been around the traps tried it all and found that I don't want that, need that , or liked that , it is not for me, I am a 2 guy girl and that's enough or me for the rest of my life. I have found what I need and want and wouldn't change it or sacrifice it or anything. Leesa xxx
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RHP User
12 years ago
I must concede, I have never had a swinger experience as such, so maybe I'm not too qualified to make comments either, however, I do believe that life in general is what you make of it. Our experience here is what we make of it, but with effective, transparent communication, then 2 people can make their experiences exactly that. Much like a tailored home loan, or a tailored suit. Monogamy can work for some, but may not be suited to all, and I think the first step in people leading quite happy and fulfilling lives, is that acknowledge to themselves what type of person they are, etc. Anyway just my thoughts...oh, and great topic for discussion too I might add.
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Mr_MrsAraps
12 years ago
My experience in this is pretty limited but I will say one thing. While being in a very long term monogamous relationship, my ex and I had talked and decided to enter an open relationship just before it ended. The only problem was the relationship was so band-aided on the emotional and communication sides and at that stage it was never going to work and probably would have been the same result if we stayed monogamous.My two cents is a successful relationship no matter what type be it monogamous, open or other is it has to be built on respect, communication and honesty.
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avidmale
12 years ago
contrary for the sake of it. But. Its reasonable to assume the general consensus on open relationships from a RHP sample is going to result in pro-open. Thats not to say there are those that aren't for, but I'd think there'd be a greater amount.I guess my point is, find comfort in the opinions of those here. But don't be shocked if its completely opposite 'in the real world'.
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RHP User
12 years ago
I think most people use this term to mean that they have one partner and only have sex with that one partner. So to Leesa and MsBlue I think the general population would say that you are not monogamous if you have more than one partner. Mono meaning one. I have read the book as well and I found it very interesting. I realise that living an "alternative" lifestyle, I guess you would call it, does have its own challenges. But I really like the idea. :) Meeka
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RHP User
12 years ago
but meeka.... we only have one 'partner'....each other...our 'playmates' dont reach 'partner' status, as we never, never go anywhere a second time....
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RHP User
12 years ago
I also think most of the population would define monogamous as having sex with only one person while you're in a relationship.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Good input everyone and I agree with most comments, to a point. I wanted to let this topic run without trying to direct it too much but I did want to say lets not get too caught up in semantics. I usually try to avoid labels when it comes to sexuality/relationships because labels often cause more confusion (the book actually mentions this). One problem with using the term monogamy is that in can mean different things to different people. I didnt mean to offend/confuse anyone by using the term swinging. I understand that to many people open relationships and swinging are two very different concepts; the difference being the level of emotional, rather than just physical, intimacy involved. I personally think it is unrealistic to draw an arbitrary line in the sand which cant be crossed by your partner, with emotional sex on one side and "just physical" sex on the other. But that is just my opinion and for those who are able to work with rules which help them to better separate sex and emotions I say good for you, I may be a bit jealous! I'd rather have a "rule" that we be open and honest with ourselves and each other about our feelings for each other and our feelings for any other party we may sleep with. I dont see how saying "you can sleep with whoever you want but you can only sleep with each person once (or twice...)" is all that different from saying "you can only sleep with me". Restricting the number of times you sleep with each person would only be my "rule" if sleeping with people outside of our relationship is intended to be purely for physical satisfaction and we intended to deny any emotions we may feel toward other people we sleep with; which isnt what I'm looking for. I guess I dont want complete polyamory (oh no, another label) or "just physical" swinging; surely there is some middle ground between the two? I agree with halcyon, sex with another person (whether emotions are involved or not) cant be used as a long term solution to fix a relationship that may be on the rocks; things like communication and being emotionally open to your partner are what make for a deep/long relationship. BUT (and this may be getting a little off topic but still very related) you cant flog a dead horse. People grow, people change, relationships should be worked on but at some point you do have to admit you both might be happier going on your own path. I love the song hey ya by outkast, "if nothing lasts forever then what makes love the exception? Why are we so in denial if we know we're not happy here?" I mean it might be great if we had one partner our whole life but I dont think thats very realistic. Whether I've loved someone for 3 years or 3 decades they will always hold a special place in my heart and nothing could ever diminish the beauty of the time we shared together. Id much rather be honest with each other and end things amicably than live a lie that makes us both miserable. Thanks to justjuice for sharing, its great to hear how youve made it work for you :) And to those of you who have read the book, how interesting is it! I mean I had my own opinion already so it didnt change my mind too much, but it was nice to learn of a bit of scientific evidence to "support" my unconventional views. I'm sure there are many scientists who could dispute the claims made but they sure do make pre-agricultural society seem more appealing than one would think.
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RHP User
12 years ago
Disagree, I am monogamous I am polyamory, I have 2 partners that I am solely in a relationship. I beg to differ. Unless you live y life you would not imagine what I mean.if you are married to one man, and are monogamous to him, the only difference is that I have 2 guys and they are like 2 separate relationships, we live together and have for 4 years and we are exclusive to each other. Sorry. Leesa
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RHP User
12 years ago
Hi Leesa, not doubting that you are in a loving faithful relationship with two people. Just commenting that in general when a person on the street says monogamous they would most likely mean one person and sex with the one person only. Just in reference to Mike's comment about being monogamous as being in a committed relationship but they still swing. I am assuming here, but if you asked a person on the street they would say you are not monogamous. Wouldn't they? The common understanding of the word. I think it's fantastic, Leesa, that you have managed to make your situation work. Often it is hard enough to make one relationship work. And for you all to live together too? It's amazing. Mike, yes I understand what you mean. :)
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RHP User
12 years ago
Probably correct, but I am no different to anyone that has one relationship and is monogamous. The difference is I have 2 can't see why that would make anything different. Oh no! Once again I don't fit in anywhere, what do I call myself if not monogamous to 2 guys...I am a reject..lol I am monogamous to John, and I am monogamous to Bryan...so I say I am in a monogamous reationship..just mine is harder work than most.. And I suppose I can't expect anyone to understand or appreciate what I am saying unless they have lived my life .
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RHP User
12 years ago
The Free online Dictionary says.1. The practice or condition of having a single sexual partner during a period of time.2. a. The practice or condition of being married to only one person at a time.b. The practice of marrying only once in a lifetime. I can see loopholes in these definitions, that could make Leeesa's and Mike'sassertions correct, but the intent of the definition is clear.I would probably have an each way bet, and say if you search enough dictionaries you may even find one that has the definition to support your case.I would bet my last dollar though if you went and poled this in the streets they wouldbe considered not to be monogamous by an overwhelming majority.What really matters here though is how couples rationalise it to themselves, and reallyit's nobodies business but theirs.Cheers Felonious
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RHP User
12 years ago
I am married to only one person..lol so I am monogamous Hehe
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RHP User
12 years ago
Leesa... I reckon most people just wouldn't be able to cope if you told them you had two primary relationships!!
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RHP User
12 years ago
Most people that meet us in our personal life see it works and understand completely. Those in the swinging lifestyle didn't get it..family and kids, and personal friends did, as they see us in our normal everyday life, and see ow great it works. But the swingers and the lifestyle would gossip and say...omg she is leaving Bryan for John..and so on...you see you are not supposed to fall in love with a play mate. It is the golden rule of swinging. But then I didn't , John was not in the lifestyle...so go figure. The patrons all assumed I was gonna leave bryan and if I wasn't at club one night the gossip was ripe..lol So normal people I find do ne'er stand, it is the swingers etc that struggle with it. Leesa xx
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RHP User
12 years ago
To re-iterate the legitimacy of what couplesint was explains, I was extremely skeptical of all variations on the bible version of a relationship until I met couplesint and saw that not only as individuals, there was exuding portraits of individualism, wisdom and strength but when combined, contradictory to my initial assumptions and opinions, this was a relationship that outshone and showed infallibility when other conventional relationships have expired
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RHP User
12 years ago
To re-iterate the legitimacy of what couplesint was explains, I was extremely skeptical of all variations on the bible version of a relationship until I met couplesint and saw that not only as individuals, there was exuding portraits of individualism, wisdom and strength but when combined, contradictory to my initial assumptions and opinions, this was a relationship that outshone and showed infallibility when other conventional relationships have expired
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