M46
The war of social conformity...
July 02 2014
Comments
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RHP User
10 years ago
That as a single you are not committed,have fbs,fwbs,go to clubs maybe,indulge in 3somes,4somes and more somes,and yet when you think about coupling suddenly this is all going to be different....Obviously this does not apply to everyone but I have read many posts here where people have indicated that if they were in a committed relationship they would be monogamous......Doesn't make any sense to me xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
I think,it's a bit like trying to put the Genie back in the bottle xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
Because that is what we are taught as youngsters, that is all we see around us and in the media, so I find that from my own very vanilla circle of friends that 'other' types of relationships are just too difficult for them to understand. They can't get their heads around it at all. I also think it has to do with possessiveness. A lot of children have to be taught how to share their toys. Isn't that right? They have to learn to share Mummy's time with siblings, etc, etc. But we are never taught that we can share lovers and that you can fall in love with more than one person. Alot of people still deep down think that possessiveness and jealousy show how much you care about a person. We have been brainwashed into thinking that being with the "one " is the ultimate happiness and if you don't have the one then you can't really be happy? Also another thing I often think, for example Stir.... if you were brought up thinking that bi-sexuality is normal for most people. Would you be so straight today do you think?
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RHP User
10 years ago
Nice question by the way Stir.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I also think that what people present to the world is often not really what they are like in their private life...... who knows how many conventional people you know Sir_Stir are actually super kinky fuckers with girlfriends and boyfriends all over the place and have BDSM dungeons in their house and boxes full of fetish gear. One thing RHP has taught me, is that you just never know about people.
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RHP User
10 years ago
"why do people feel so pressured to conform to a mainstream stereotypical monogamous relationship??" Some fear, some respect, some feel morally obligated (read their upbringing defining their morals) and some just don't need more than one other person in their life... each unto his or her own. For me it is respect... I will be monogamous with someone if they wish it and would be happy to share and share alike if they agree to the boundaries. Personally a committed relationship is exactly whatever the people engaged in said relationship agree to... communication, boundaries etc. Some people associate sex with love and some separate the two in such a way that they can be happily married whilst having many bead partners. Society (dare I say laws and religious influences) are what drive the fear into people and thus why I think the non-monogamous lifestyle is still shunned. SG
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Chillymofo
10 years ago
Jealousy Some people can handle seeing their significant other with others, while most people can't.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I think you raise a very good point about conditioning.... Our social conditioning dictates so much, from sexuality to attraction and what it is exactly that constitutes "commitment." I think we've all read Cinderella, Snow White, where by men are seen as tall, dark and handsome, and women are seen as damsels in distress. And.... They get married and live happily ever after.... Some may argue that they're just stories, but I must agree with a certain forumite that presented it to me that they're actually quite a significant thread in our social fabric in determining how we see relationships and the like. So.... Then I ask is monogamy an act of proof that we look for - from that social conditioning - to determine someone's commitment level?? If so, is that the ONLY attribute to a relationship that determines it as "committed"?? An example - however basic and fundamentally simple it may be - is friendships. We are committed to our friendships, but we have many friends and we aren't monogamous to them, so I wonder why it's such big focal point for those within romantic relationships given that friendship is the essence of every romantic relationship that we look for....right?? - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
Young boys don't really watch these disney cartoons do they? So what are young boys taught about monogamy, marriage and family?
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RHP User
10 years ago
No for me . I cannot bare to share a bond between two that can be special nothing to do with society its about loyalty trust bond between two lovers that is for two lovers and two lovers only . Many birds pair for life not because society says its right its just natural . - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
Its something very different and if i had a partner that wants to swing then swing alone i could not stand the thought of our intimacy shared as then there is nothing intimate about it nor a special bond . And yep each to there own . - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
By the number of kids who go to my school and who have two homes....its more common than not...One thirteen year old told me that he had seven brothers and sisters and that the youngest was only six months old...Gosh your mum must be busy I said......he just laughed and said... Nah,Dads just got lots of girlfriends :-) xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
BIgOcean it is not just natural and you can't use animals as an example because then you would have to say that mating for life is totally unnatural. In fact there are only 11 animals that do mate for life. 11 out of how many millions of species of animals on earth. So no, it isn't a natural state at all.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I cannot bare to share a bond between two that can be special nothing to do with society its about loyalty trust bond between two lovers that is for two lovers and two lovers only . Many birds pair for life not because society says its right its just natural . It's just a matter of finding someone that ticks ALL the boxes for you, that's the hard part :)
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MsSuperFoxy
10 years ago
I was only role-modeled that monogamous was the only relationship there was and swinging was very Taboo. I have met many people (from here and in real life), discussed this topic in depth and read many many forums. I'm more open now than what I was when I first started posting and joining this site. Do we/you have to form what society says?? It's a personal choice isn't it?? How I see it is, there are many many forms of relationships and if I was to only teach/role modeled that to my daughter I would be denying her of many choices and relationships that she may want. Her happiness is all I ask for - if she chooses monogamous or poly - I don't care - as long as she's happy. As for an only child I have and will teach her what good healthy relationships are all about, if it means sharing in a good healthy way, well she can go for it. As for me, who knows what I get or what relationships cross my path, as long as I'm happy and my partner is Happy with good open and honest communication. Great topic and good one Sir. :) Foxy
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MsSuperFoxy
10 years ago
I used to be like yourself...always though being monogamous was the only way. It was not till my daughter moved to live overseas that I couldn't stop her but yet I wanted her so bad and didn't want to share her, all I wanted was to protect her...Letting her do things she wants makes her happy, that is when I knew about love and happiness of someone close. Sometimes we gotta let loved ones do things they want to do - it does not mean they love you less - sometimes they will love you more..even if they want to be with other people in a poly relationship. There is a lot more to poly relationships... I hope I have explained how I feel now and how my way of thinking has changed and it makes sense? Foxy
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RHP User
10 years ago
Just saw this and thought it was appropriate, it is a 5 year old boy talking about his three girlfriends. Google wimp three girlfriends. It should be the first thing that comes up. Priceless!
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Hottie1
10 years ago
We are living two lives. Our 9-5, family and friends life - who see a happily married (22 years) couple in a typical heterosexual relationship.Our reality is that we are swinging couple who are totally in love with each other, however our relationship has evolved into wanting sex with other people. I love hubby but I love having sex with hubby and other people. We weren't conditioned to want to have sex with other people once we 'found' each other. The bigotry and biases our family and friends have towards the lifestyle is very narrow minded. Not just swinging, their bigotry extends to anything beyond a heterosexual relationship. Our daughter has told us she is bisexual, when she tried raising this with her grandparents (because she thought they would be as understanding as her parents) she was scolded and asked 'who was brainwashing these ideas into her head?' Both hubby and I try to show our children that there is no judgment when in comes to health and happiness in relationships. I encourage this thinking in my own children and the young people I teach. Many young people have 'come out to me' because they know I am open minded. I think there is a new social conditioning emerging - a greater level of acceptance of all, and it is the much younger generation driving this. Hopefully more young people show the strength of character to say this is who I am, whether you like it or not. sir_stir, that's a fine young lady your are raising! Just my thoughts. M xx
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RHP User
10 years ago
That's the little boy who was trying to figure out what to do right?? - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
Yep. The one that says... Wish I was 4 again. I thought is was really cute.
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RHP User
10 years ago
You could say that with the more information at our fingertips and kinks being more and more in our faces that people may not have even thought such a thing once upon a time and if it wasn't for their awareness of it that maybe they would never have been a part of it. It is also becoming more accepted with most cities having a culture of it. I think fear is the reason people do hide it behind closed doors. If it is so natural/right why hide it? I have sex, sometimes I even have what people would consider kinky sex and a lot of people know what I get up to. I don't fear what others may think of me but my preference is for a committed lover who doesn't feel the need to seek anything elsewhere. Meaningless sex is just that to me, it doesn't excite me, kinks don't excite me, what does excite me is someone that thinks I am the most special person in the world and vice versa.
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madotara69
10 years ago
Quoting 'ralf74' You could say that with the more information at our fingertips and kinks being more and more in our faces that people may not have even thought such a thing once upon a time and if it wasn't for their awareness of it that maybe they would never have been a part of it. It is also becoming more accepted with most cities having a culture of it. I think fear is the reason people do hide it behind closed doors. If it is so natural/right why hide it? I have sex, sometimes I even have what people would consider kinky sex and a lot of people know what I get up to. I don't fear what others may think of me but my preference is for a committed lover who doesn't feel the need to seek anything elsewhere. Meaningless sex is just that to me, it doesn't excite me, kinks don't excite me, what does excite me is someone that thinks I am the most special person in the world and vice versa. That is the most kinkiest kink of all. Mado Tara xx
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RHP User
10 years ago
Ralf I agree, that is exciting. But that doesn't mean that you both have to be monogamous. Does it.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Meeka100' Ralf I agree, that is exciting. But that doesn't mean that you both have to be monogamous. Does it. For me...yes, and I am content with that. Anyone else I don't care about is fine, I can fuck strangers to my hearts content but if I love someone, I don't want to share them and I don't think I should have to. What other people do is up to them but for me, it is a deal breaker. Since being on this site, I have had 3 shots at the threesome thing, all have ended terribly. It is isn't the sort of pressure I want to add to my partnership.
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Mischeviouslad
10 years ago
Maybe its fear.... but Im inclined to think its more about comfort, rather than fear. If everyone does the same thing, and nobody rocks the boat of social normalcy.... then, noone looks upon you and your choices so much because theyre not that different to their choices. There is comfort in that for the majority of people. I do what I want. If someone ahs a problem with that.... thats their problem. I dont make it my problem.
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RHP User
10 years ago
We are all, doesn't matter what we say preconditioned through society.And it is hard to stand against it......yes some do but only secretly.....not many stand out and live an open pologamish relationship or saying openly, I am and my partner live in an open partnership.The question is also why do people even so they do.....not say it.....because...... we will hear lots and lots of negativity from our surrounding, like doesn't he/ she loves you ...how dare she/ he does thisHe/ she is disrespectful to you...we own the other the moment we get into a relationship and our RULES tell us how to behave. And being n a partnership has set rules by society.Our insecurity does it to us too.....I mean....the saying in most minds go..... I am not the most beautiful when my partner seeks others for sex.....am I not enough......all this thoughts go through our minds.I would not know how to behave to be in such a partnership.....thats my honest truth. Do I find couples awesome who have mastered it? Yes i do...however I know too....many women instigate it and the women are the once who stop it.I am still in a way old fashion and when kids are involved I love to be married, because everyone wants to belong to a tribe and the tribe is first your mum and dad.Then, we get not educated on different lifestyle we have one set and one set only so how can anybody make a real conscious decision when we only have one style the christian style.Its so hard to go against the stream openly, its hard work and you are an outsider
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RHP User
10 years ago
Firstly, great topic sir_stir and I really love the thoughtful responses so far. There was a study published late last year or early this year but for the life of me I cannot find it just now. It looked at conformity in a community and found that conformity is actual an innate instinct amongst humans to form larger groups, that is, we take the thoughts and feelings which we like and seek out like minded persons to form a larger group. In seek to form larger groups, we then modify those core beliefs to blend in with the general opinion of the larger group, which then feeds on itself to create a self perpetuating belief system to be "taught" to new members of the group. Within the larger group of a community there may be subgroups with modified core beliefs that mean some deviation from the wider whole but not so great a deviation as to split entirely from the group. There is a general smoothing over of the deviation to avoid fracturing the wider whole. Where a community becomes too big to accommodate all of the deviations of the various subgroups, it will break up into smaller communities which will then pursue their own new core beliefs. So in the wider community, there has evolved a view that monogamous relationships are the preferred model. However, the community tolerates some deviation from this model (eg poly/casual/swinger) provided the deviation is smoothed over (lived surreptitiously) to not overturn the core belief. The core belief is not held out of fear or ignorance, or even conditioning but rather it is a feeling that helps promote a sense of oneness with the community which feeds the pursuit of happiness drive of the person. Even on RHP, we subscribe to a deviation to the wider community but form our own community with core beliefs and expect a degree of conformity from members in the way they act, so that if people act outside the norm (eg golden dicks), they are jumped on to make them smooth over their deviation or leave the community. I was monogamous for 13 years and loved it. I have been doing the fwb lifestyle with a number of women for almost 7 years and enjoy it for different reasons. I would love to have a monogamous relationship again but I am not seeking it out at all costs.
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RHP User
10 years ago
People like to flock... To churches for eg. They often live on the same side of town that they were born on... I have two male friends both married to seemingly nice women. Both of the guys have confided in me after being shocked and horrified (and titilated) at some of my adventures here... Both are committed family types, who have gotten stuck into me regarding my children... They both "would" have an affair on the side if the situation presented... obviously without their wife's knowledge... one of them suspects that his wife has possibly "played" when overseas for her birthday... Yet to them, the concept of an open marriage or sharing their partner is abhorrent... They would prefer the deceit of not knowing, rather than the respect and honesty of communicating with their partner... Hp xo💋 Because you're worth it...
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RHP User
10 years ago
There are several reasons why people chose to be monogamous whilst in a relationship and jealousy probably ranks right up there with possessiveness and a deep fear of losing their lover to another. Feeling insecure about yourself will also be a contributing factor as will greed and envy. And then there is the rarest of them all, plain old fashioned love. To be totally fulfilled, satisfied, happy and content with that one soul deep connection with complete trust and utter devotion, until death do us part.Im a rare bird hahaha Wild Turkey ;P
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goldcoastcple69
10 years ago
Maybe it all comes from centuries of religious dogma drilled into our heads and cultural traditions etc ..For some cultures, a woman walking out the door with out having her self covered in a thick ninja suit from head to toe is considered promiscuous, , abhorrent she would be deemed a whore and probably even raped and killed ..Alot of women in these cultures wouldnt walk out the door without a man to accompany them..Others would call them whores etc.. To me its all brainwashing conditioning coming from outdated religious dogma.. In our modern culture, its not as bad as that but people are still conditioned to see anything outside of traditional marriage to be immoral , taboo, whoredom , slutty, wrong, not being loyal, anti love, dishonest etc etc.. If my wife wants to go and fuck some guy and does it safely, then i have no problem with that..Its her life ..I dont own her, and we set our own rules when it comes to marriage/relationship..I like to call it marriage since it pisses so many people off lol I say fuck the conformist lol we wont conform to some outdated religious tradition that has no meaning what so ever in 2014..(just my opinion)
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Violetincredible
10 years ago
You have to come up with a whole new set of rules as a couple and you both have to agree, interpret and understand them in the same way.. That can take a lot of trial and error and could end up destroying the relationship and it' takes time and creative lateral thinking. it would be a lot easier to stick to the traditional way that everyone knows and understands... Xxviolet
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MsSuperFoxy
10 years ago
Just like violet said, I think sometimes people just want to feel "safe" and "secure" as well as needed and wanted in relationships, maybe people might think they will not get that in say Poly or open relationships?? I know, cause that is what I want to feel safe and secure with whom ever I am with. That's where I think open and honest communication comes into it - I think as well it's not fear, it's having that safeness and security with that person and sometimes sticking to monogamous relationships gives people that. Yes I agree sometimes people do stick to monogamous because it's the only way they know to have a safe and secure relationship. Foxy
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RHP User
10 years ago
So true Meeka :) - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
Is not the natural norm,it has become the norm in post agrarian times because of property...not because of religion,that came later.Men wanted to pass their property onto their progeny,sons in particular...ironically a recent Australian study hasd shown that 30% of us are not the progeny of the men who we think are our biological fathers....The Swedes actually found the monogamy gene,apparentyly it existed but only in very few men,and no women.....Sex At Dawn...the prehistory of modern sexcuality is a great read and argues the case beautifully imo for non monogamous relationships....however they also say there are and will be couples for whom it works xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
Ha! I can't believe nobody has mentioned the bonobos yet! From wikipedia: The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes. Bonobos are perceived to be matriarchal and a male's rank in the social hierarchy is often determined by his mother's rank. Along with the common chimpanzee, the bonobo is the closest extant relative to humans.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Love the missionary position and the females enjoy cunnilingud....girl on girl...:-) xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
This....... Quoting 'SimpleNeeds2' Firstly, great topic sir_stir and I really love the thoughtful responses so far. There was a study published late last year or early this year but for the life of me I cannot find it just now. It looked at conformity in a community and found that conformity is actual an innate instinct amongst humans to form larger groups, that is, we take the thoughts and feelings which we like and seek out like minded persons to form a larger group. In seek to form larger groups, we then modify those core beliefs to blend in with the general opinion of the larger group, which then feeds on itself to create a self perpetuating belief system to be "taught" to new members of the group. Within the larger group of a community there may be subgroups with modified core beliefs that mean some deviation from the wider whole but not so great a deviation as to split entirely from the group. There is a general smoothing over of the deviation to avoid fracturing the wider whole. Where a community becomes too big to accommodate all of the deviations of the various subgroups, it will break up into smaller communities which will then pursue their own new core beliefs. So in the wider community, there has evolved a view that monogamous relationships are the preferred model. However, the community tolerates some deviation from this model (eg poly/casual/swinger) provided the deviation is smoothed over (lived surreptitiously) to not overturn the core belief. The core belief is not held out of fear or ignorance, or even conditioning but rather it is a feeling that helps promote a sense of oneness with the community which feeds the pursuit of happiness drive of the person. Even on RHP, we subscribe to a deviation to the wider community but form our own community with core beliefs and expect a degree of conformity from members in the way they act, so that if people act outside the norm (eg golden dicks), they are jumped on to make them smooth over their deviation or leave the community. I was monogamous for 13 years and loved it. I have been doing the fwb lifestyle with a number of women for almost 7 years and enjoy it for different reasons. I would love to have a monogamous relationship again but I am not seeking it out at all costs. The thing is it seems every 'group' seems to want to modify the properties of another group and I think this is where problems arise. Years ago (as in many years ago) in front of a good friend of mind when I mentioned something about a particular group not being normal he replied 'so who wants to be normal' and it stopped me dead in my tracks because he was just plain right. What I consider to be normal will not be what another person considers normal and when you think about everyone is in some way correct.The Marriage thing though is an interesting one and there is really no right or wrong here either, I still think the title should be reserved for the, if you like 'core group', astheir conditioning has made it that way.... because it works -they are comfortable with that . In my worthless swinger (you sick sick people ) forum posting opinion I reckon what the other partnerships need is a similar title with the same entitlements and that way everyone cruises along merrily Then again in some way I've been conditioned and so has everyone else.Damn my glass is empty I'd better stop here LOL
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RHP User
10 years ago
See the latest abc science radio show about how monogamy is unnatural. I am thrilled and amazed every time we swing how different women are and how different men are how they taste different, feel different, and like different things. The differences between women and women and men and men, I feel is just as big as the difference between sexes. So I prefer chocolate than cream but I like cream and chocolate together. I love my wife and one way of loving her is to feed her well. Ps the abc show talks about bonobos!
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RHP User
10 years ago
I am monogamous in my heart and they would know that but my body is for me and what I chose to do with it is my business - the right partner would understand this and of course I apply the same logic to them, however in my eyes this does not mean in any shape or form that I love them less or diminishes anything what we have. We all have physical desires/impulses and I have no issue on acting on them accordingly and no problem if my much loved partner did the same. As long as there was strong communication, honesty and a complete understanding of what is acceptable behaviour from both parties. For the wrong person I am not monogamous- but then I'm not in a relationship with that person anyway
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MsJonesy
10 years ago
Thanks Stir, this topic is thought provoking. I've attempted to record my thoughts; however I feel I may not have captured them well. But I will share and see what people think. What is it that defines a relationship? It has to be what the people in the relationship define for themselves. Amicus talked about respect and I agree with this. It means respect for the relationship as a whole, respect for what each bring to the relationship and respect of each other’s views, desires and beliefs. Stir asked, "Then I ask is monogamy an act of proof that we look for - from that social conditioning - to determine someone's commitment level?? I believe there is a hefty dose of truth to this; that social conditioning places monogamy as one of the highest measures of a successful relationship. Do I agree with this? If you had asked me this 5-6 years ago I would probably have agreed. Then my life changed significantly and so have my views. Commitment to me does not equal monogamy. Commitment to each other does not have to rule out others. I agree with Sukki – monogamous in my heart, but happy to explore (and act on) the idea that to share one’s physical vessel with others does not in any way diminish my cerebral commitment to my partner. I don't believe we can derive all that we need from one person; we all have friends with whom we share certain aspects of our lives and not others. Having sexual friends – those we share certain aspects of our sexual lives – is to me a natural extension of this concept. But it utterly relies on honesty, respect, and communication.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I reckon if I fall in love this will all end. I couldn't share him...so I wouldn't do it either When will I fall in love hahaha
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RHP User
10 years ago
I loved monogamy but having tried the alternative, I would only do it again if it was the right person, not out of fear or duty. I see so many sham monogamous relationships with the parents at my daughter's school or some of my work colleagues. They take their partners for granted, a matter of social convenience. There is none of the respect and emotional connection that should be in a relationship. I also agree with Sukki's and kissk's observations. I have been in a long term relationship where we were not monogamous but we openly discussed things and were close emotionally as well as physically. I see that as a stronger relationship than the people who live with a façade of monogamy but with no love or commitment to each other.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Cynical me,always believed that there wsd no such thing as the perfect relationship,that it was just like the Loch. Ness monster....over the centuries thertre hsdbeen sightings but no real evidence...then a few years ago,I met Mona and Arthur....I was in hospital and Mona was in the bed opposite...she didn't eat,she didn't speak....she just lay there...I decided one morning to chat to her....she immediately sat up and told me how mucvh she was missing her husband Arthur,Mona was 91 ,Arthur was 93 and they had been together since she was 17....they had run away to be together as her family did not approve...so that meant they had been together for 74 years.... Life had not been easy for them,but they had lived in the same house for most of that time...the next daymMona was very excited,Arthur was coming to visit...l was expecting to see a small wizened man,but when I looked up there was a tall grey haired man with s walking stick,practically running across the ward....he was calling out to Mona and I heard him say..Mona I miss you so much,I call out to you and then I realize you aren't there. ...tears were streaming down my face xQ
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RHP User
10 years ago
As someone who has been involved in the swinging scene since i was 20, i have great respect for couples who swing! Personally, when i have been in a relationship i prefer (for the most part) monogomy... i am all for an open relationship, playing individually, but the idea of actually watching someone i truely care for in the heat of the moment with someone else, i dont know! I just cant quite wrap my head around that. I will admit, none of my relationships have been that serious though so ive never really been put in that situation. Casual open relationships have just worked for me. they know im with others, i know theyre with others and it just works! I guess if i ever meet that special someone i will just play it by ear. If they want to swing i would be open to testing the waters so to speak! In the meantime, keeping it casual, having fun, and fuck buddies just works for me ;)
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