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Yet Another "Cheating" Forum - or is it Cheating ?

July 15 2012

In keeping with this weekend theme on cheating, I’m most interested in seeing what our forum posters/readers have to say on this scenario I’ve spent like the last 6 hours or so consoling a “friend” of mine who has just discovered that her fiancé of 9 months is cheating on her however it’s not as simple as that A little bit of background info on the said couple who I will call John and Jane. Jane is 59 , John is 51 – they have been together 2 years – they met on a vanilla dating site and starting living together after 6 weeks of dating. They are getting married in September – it will be a second marriage for her and a third for him. They both have children from their respective marriages, but no children live with them .They are both professionally employed but heavily committed financially. John is a long term swinger. Jane has never swung. Since John met Jane he has given up his swinging lifestyle and re embraced his vanilla life but he told Jane within their first few dates of his sexual past. He also told Jane that he was bisexual but he had pretty much given that up as well…the reason for this being, that he was older and not as sexually driven as he was in the past and he had pretty much fulfilled his lifetime fantasies etc etc. Jane seemed quite ok with all this info. They have never swung together however earlier this year they did dabble in FMF – John arranged and paid for a female prostitute to join them as Jane didn’t want any emotional attachments developing. This went off ok but didn’t really rock Jane’s world. Jane was somewhat curious about John’s bisexual side so John did advertise on another site from this and organised for a man to join them where Jane could watch John with another bloke – but did not join in, she just watched…..again it didn’t really do a lot for her; she wasn’t repulsed but wasn’t turned on either Now Jane has suspected in the last few months that John was playing up on her and went snooping. Be careful what you go looking for as Jane has 100 percent proof that John is “screwing around on her” but it is not with other women but with men. He often arranges for “Blow and Go’s” during his lunch break and when she is away for work, he bring blokes back to their home and indulges in bdsm, cross dressing fantasies– they don’t stay over. Now Jane is not (excuse the pun) “blown” way by this, as she knows of his wants/desires but what has freaked her out is the regularity that these acts are taking place….John is not just occasionally seeing blokes..it is almost a daily occurrence and has been for the last 9 months, sans weekends..… (if I told you what he did for a job..you wonder how in the hell he is fitting all of this in ) but he is managing……***applauses*** Now at this point I should mention that I am Johns ex and Jane suspected that I may have known that this was going on ( I didnt but I wasnt the least bit surprised - btw John and I have regular contact thru my work ) Jane came over to my place today, seeking guidance as she felt she couldnt bring this subject up with her vanilla G/f's and of course I had experienced John's infidelity of a similar vein myself…… I told Jane (knowing John like I do) that IF and WHEN she confronts John with what she knows he will not deny it but he will tell her that because it is “same sex” sex, that in his eyes, its not cheating – I know him well (cause he did the same to me) that this is how he will view this. Jane naturally is in a state about it all and questioning her role in all of this and my own belief is that he probably is not practicing safe sex but that’s a belief, not a fact. So of course Jane asked me what she should do …I had to be very careful how I replied (being the EX and not wanting to come across somewhat bias…) and I did tell her what I would do, but stressed this is what I WOULD DO....but I did ask her to consider this…each lunchtime, will you be wondering where he is and what he is doing and with whom…If the answer to that doesn’t bother you, then you have your answer and if it does, then you may have to rethink your relationship and what is in it for you…..you get what you settle for…and only she could honestly answer what she is prepared to “put up with” - remember there is a wedding about to be happen and deep financial commitments, both are much older too and does anyone want to start again at their ages ? So the question here is – is it “cheating” if it “same sex” sex ? …as no emotional attachment is ever going to develop - hell half the time he doesn’t even know their names !!!..Do you agree with what John will argue (and he will stand by this justification... I know him) , and would you settle for this, maybe not say anything , knowing a wedding is looming and you are both so financially committed ? Thoughts please

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RHP User

12 years ago

As jane is none the wiser.... any sexual act with another person, even without emotional attachment is cheating, whether it be same sex or not... It's one thing for john to convince himself it's not cheating, because it's 'same sex'.... however a relationship/partnership involves two people, (sometimes more).... i'm sure she would like to opportunity to speak/decide for herself... My concern for jane would be the possible std's john might attain from multiply random men... personally i wouldn't jeopardize my own happiness, or health.... so i would speak up.

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RHP User

12 years ago

poor choice of a word... somehow i don't think john would be proud of contracting a std, neither would jane be seen as successful in obtaining one

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Paradisepair

12 years ago

Better to sort it out now rather than post marriage.

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RHP User

12 years ago

John does not want to get married.He is doing all he can to make sure that Jane knows this.It is not what we say that is important ,it is our actions that do indeed speak louder than words. Having sexual encounters with men is cheating, if Jane has not accepted John doing this as within the parameters of their relationship. There is a long term pattern of behaviour here,perhaps both John and Jane could go to a counsellor to sort through what it is they both want. John needs to be honest about his sexuality and Jane needs to accept that this will not change if they are to continue in a relationship. If I were you Ms Velvet Blue I would cease to give advice and refer Jane to a counsellor.You are indeed in a tricky situation and it is difficult when a similar thing happened to you, when i you were in a relationship with John, to be objective. I hope your friends are able to work through this,I believe there are many different permutations of relationship and that this is not an impossible situation,but both Jane and John need to be honest and clear about what they want. Perhaps continuing to live together without the ties of marriage may be an option.xHugs H

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Smilingwithfun

12 years ago

Communication & honesty seem to not be present. He has told of his sexuality,had a mfm with her & still can't be open. Boy she is in for one interesting life being a mushroom-fed shit & kept in the dark.Sad state were financial consideration is put ahead of self respect-so sad. How he is treating her speaks volumes of how he values her. Thats the issue here.

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Smilingwithfun

12 years ago

Marriage is between 2 people not 1.You marry your lover,friend & confidente. One does not make the rules,you both make decisions. Given his age & life experiences he has no excuses.Shits to be her

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RHP User

12 years ago

Oh hell no!!!! As long as its with the same sex it's not cheating?? Who exactly is John trying to convince of this? Jane needs to cut her losses and run as fast as her little legs can carry her in the opposite direction. It's such a Dr Phil moment.... The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. I have extremely strong feelings about cheaters. I think they are the lowest form of life right alongside pedophiles. Oxygen thieves.... There are no legitimate reasons and no excuses for this behavior. If you can't be faithful- fuck off out of the relationship and don't be in a relationship. Do NOT envy your position Velvet. I say don't ever settle.

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RHP User

12 years ago

Thanks for all your posts so far… And Apollo like you I have extremely strong feelings regarding cheating as well which is why I was most careful about what I said to Jane….I was put in a position though that threw me – it’s not like she rang and forewarned me that she was lobbing over – she just rocked up on my doorstep…and of course she was upset – fully understandable, what could I do but let her in and listen ?? And it was awkward, especially for her as I had met her before, but only twice… When she asked my advice, I told her that any I gave her would be based on my own biases and experiences with John, however as I said, I shared with her what I would do (well what I had done in the past and that was why I dumped him) …I did suggest counselling to her but she shot that down – quote: ”She’s too embarrassed by all of this””……and of course I asked her, what was she prepared to settle for ? Did she really want to spend every lunch time post honeymoon wondering what John was up to and with whom ..I know I didn’t, hence why our relationship ended ( I ended it for EXACTLY this same reason and I think this is why Jane sought me out).,..Leopards don’t change their spots…!! However I didn’t want come across as bitter ex-girlfriend (trust me the fact that this is till happening methinks I dodged a bullet !! and I’m far from bitter, somewhat bemused is my state of mind) So to the best of my knowledge Jane was confronting John last nite about all of this..…John didn’t front up at work today….( I don’t work with him directly but our departments liaison together) and I have discreetly asked if he was around today but he called in sick)…I’ll be honest, I’m busting to ring him (we are still buddies) but my job here is done…I’m kind of tipping I will hear from him in time ….like tomorrow…………………I guess I’d better make up the spare bed at my place……………….ah Perth is way too small !!!

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RHP User

12 years ago

deception = lying = cheating under any circumstance

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Zsuza69

12 years ago

Ahhh Miss Velvet Blue what a predicament you have fallen into to. I say (mr ZSuza) that whether it is same sex, opposite sex or animal sex its still cheating if you are doing it without your partners knowledge or acceptance of it. I wonder what John would say if the shoe was on the other foot and she was seeing other women behind his back?But that would only be a what if situation. Here is a real life one.Starting off a marriage with cheating can only end really badly down the track. Yes they are financially tied together but it probably wouldn't take too much to unravel their financial affairs (no pun intended).But after a year or two of marriage their financial affairs would be more entwined and thus harder to separate.I would tell her to consider that facts and if she is willing to let lying dogs lye (again no pun intended lol) and accept that this is going to keep going on then fine lay in your bed you have made. I'm sure she wont want to do that then don't get married.Oh and one more thing you are going to make up the spare bed for him??????? are you stupid??????(I know your not)keep the F_ck away from it unless you want unknown men in your spare bed when your not home.If you want to keep the fledgling friendship with her don't take him in i'm sure there are plenty of men out there that could take him in.And if he has to do this with other unknown men at least once a day maybe he is denying his own sexuality? maybe he his gay and not just bi? just another reason for them not to marry. Mr Zsuza

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RHP User

12 years ago

All this before the ring is even on the finger Why open a new start up to so much drama, when you can plainly see the road its already going down..Have we all stopped using our brains We can go in circles about what one considers cheating and what another doesn't....bottom line here, is that this NO way to start a 2nd or third marriage for that matter...trying to push aside sexual needs that are obviously deep set in him to please her...is never going to last longer than 5 minutes..Tell a kid he can never eat another cheeseburger..........you know damn well what the first thing he craves is going to be.

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RHP User

12 years ago

Is a sex addict. Jane has self esteem issues. Both need professional help and more to find themselves than to find a partner. Some people think that if they find a man/woman to share their life it will make them happy. Make them feel whole. It never does, both people need to fill the gaps as individuals. It will only work if John cuts his dick off or cannot get hard its simple As a guy he will find plenty of sex with other men , to easy, and its the furtive dirty down and random sex that is the turn on, not the lovey dovey sex she wants. Run Forrest Run Ms Blue, step away as its a tar baby situation for you. she has come to you as her other vanilla friends may be very judgemental and tell her to leave him, this is not what she wants to do. she knows she has a cat with spots she just kids herself that he is a pussy cat.

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RHP User

12 years ago

The thing is, each case should be judged on it's own merits. There will always be those who state adamantly that it is wrong and there are no excuses for it and yet there are still so many good people that do it. Their reasons can be as varied as the people themselves. You can find yourself in a relationship that doesn't work for you but you are unsure whether or not you can actually leave. As Hesione once wrote, "There is nothing lonelier than a marriage without intimacy." Many years ago, divorce was viewed as harshly as infidelities but an infidelity was easier to hide making it the lesser of two evils. Now divorce is as common place as marriage meaning we no longer have to work at relationships. If you have a gripe, just call it quits, why bother fixing it. I have been on both sides. I have been cheated on and I have cheated. I know what I was going through at the time that I resorted to it and, at the time, I felt justified. I expect that my spouse had her reasons for cheating on me too so I'm not hypocritical enough to judge her harshly for it. I know that there are some purely selfish people who will satisfy their lusts without regard for a loving partner but I also know that there are some lonely people, neglected or even abused by their spouses who, not knowing how to escape, reach out for solace from another lover. I'm not a bad person but I know that some of the things I've done were wrong. Still I would not change anything I've done in my life that led to me meeting and marrying Jennylee and I will never cheat on her.

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Yet Another "Cheating" Forum - or is it Cheating ?

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