F110
No jab, no pay?
April 12 2015
Comments
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RHP User
10 years ago
It's another example of the nanny state that we now live in. Why should people tell me what I can and can't do? It's my life. Pusscat xxx
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RHP User
10 years ago
I think is its not your life that is the concern ,it is the lives of others.My baby brother died of whooping cough when he was 8 months old..yes there is a risk with immunisation .but is there not a risk that more people .babies in particular will be put at greater risk?..where is the line between personal freedoms and the greater good? XxFreya
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RHP User
10 years ago
after having whooping cough myself a few years back I think people are insane not to immunise, I was a fully grown woman and it floored me for months. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
but it only solves part of the problem. The whooping cough vaccine, like many others runs out, many adults go into hospitals, dr's surgeries, anywhere public and can become carriers or pick up the virus themselves and then unknowingly pass it on. There needs to be a whooping cough adult vaccine booster shot program and more awareness of the realities of vaccinations. There is no Proven correlation between the vaccine and Austism, the one study that so called proved it, actually retracted their findings. Scare mongering has a lot to answer for, whooping cough is preventable and is absolutely horrendous, for the little ones that contract it and the families that have to live with the consequences. Freya, that must have been awful for your family, thank you for sharing.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Professionally, I have to say that once a patient , parent has the facts, the education it is ethically their decision. Personally,it's in the science people!! Get it done!!! The few bad / adverse reactions with all due respect to those that are so unfortunate pale into insignificance when compared to the number world wide that are effected due to not being immunised, we have the ability to stamp out some really nasty bugs here people, this is why these conditions are coming back!! For the sake of the many! - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
This is a tough one for me. I hate the anti-science, hysterical, cult-like nature of the anti-immunisation brigade, but I also believe strongly in people's right to define their own lives as much as possible without government intervention. Of course, this is more complex than that, because children can't decide for themselves, and other people's children are put at risk by the unvaccinated ones... but instinctively this legislation concerns me. Particularly, coupled as it is, with so much other freedom encroaching legislation that's being ushered through parliament with bipartisan complicity.
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RHP User
10 years ago
when you live within a community Like Sammy I had whooping cough years ago and it was beyond debilitating and I can only imagine how awful it must be for a little one as I can still remember how it laid me low for months and months I believe you owe it to the community that you reside in to do the best you can for all concerned on many levels If you your child had nits for instance would you not be proactive in removing them for the benefit of the child concerned and the community as a whole ? Yep we live in a Nanny state but guess what, there's worse things the government is up to than this. Yes there is a risk, but there's a risk in all of life. I'm grateful that vaccination is available. I believe in being proactive in all aspects of health Condolences Freya x
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RHP User
10 years ago
what they can and can't do. They're just stopping access to government assistance for those who choose not to immunise. The government is responsible for public health, mass immunisation provides protection for the public, including those who cannot immunise due to health issues. If you choose to endanger the public by not immunising, why should you have access to government funding? The anti-vaccination movement is such a first world, priviledged issue. I've lived in a third world country and seen children who are permanently disabled by polio, where measles and whooping cough are still potentially fatal diseases. The priviledge of being able to choose whether to immunise comes about due to the herd immunity provided by everyone else who does immunise. Will it take an epidemic of a preventable disease before people see the dangers of this ridiculous nonsense?
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RHP User
10 years ago
@wody_pussycat, yes at times I regard this place as a nanny state but in this case let sanity prevail. If you do not wish to vaccinate your children, fine, your crew, the anti vacs crew can set up a system of your own that provides child care and education. In other words do not send your unvaxed kids to a pre-school, kindergarten and school where they will put my children and other responsible parents children at risk. A lot of religious groups already do this so there is an example. As for the Google research morons who absorb crap on the internet put out by unqualified and hidden agenda folk like sponge you are entitled to your opinions and beliefs, just don't expose other children to risk because of your ignorance. No jab no Social Security payments, great initiative
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Keepitsimple72'No one is telling anyone what they can and can't do. They're just stopping access to government assistance for those who choose not to immunise. The government is responsible for public health, mass immunisation provides protection for the public, including those who cannot immunise due to health issues. I'd agree it was a Nanny state action if the government was fining people for not immunising their kids, but in this case people have the choice of not vaccinating, thereby choosing to forego the benefits and rebates. Freya, so very sad. :-(
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Keepitsimple72' If you choose to endanger the public by not immunising, why should you have access to government funding? The simple answer, I guess, is because the Family Tax Benefit is to support people with families, and all government money comes from taxation, which people who don't immunise still contribute to. Look, as I said, I'm conflicted about this. I agree with everything you say about the antivaxers, and anything that gets kids vaccinated is a good thing, but the antivaxers already believe there's a massive, global conspiracy against them, and governmental legislation will play straight into that paranoia. And will possibly make other fence-sitters, who are erring on the side of disenfranchised, come to the conclusion that there's something in their conspiracy rantings.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Meander' I'd agree it was a Nanny state action if the government was fining people for not immunising their kids, but in this case people have the choice of not vaccinating, thereby choosing to forego the benefits and rebates. It is effectively fining people, isn't it?
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RHP User
10 years ago
Never got over the death of her child...in those days dead babies were whisked way by hospital staff as the importance of grieving had become lost as part of of our Anglo stiff upper lip..just get on with life culture...when she was in her 80s.my Mum started to collect baby dolls...my sister and I both believed it was directly related to her lack of grieving at the time ...for anyone who is so against immunisation,just visit a children's ward and see for yourself the consequences of this terrible disease xx Freya
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Freya79' I think is its not your life that is the concern ,it is the lives of others.My baby brother died of whooping cough when he was 8 months old..yes there is a risk with immunisation .but is there not a risk that more people .babies in particular will be put at greater risk?..where is the line between personal freedoms and the greater good? XxFreya Was going to post something of a similar vane. No need, well put Freya
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PL1963
10 years ago
19 yrs ago, we were at this point with our then baby boy, the Health Centre nurse told us that their were 3 kids at the centre that were positive for hepatitus. That made the decision for Us. I know there can be side effects with some kids & immunisation, the key is to monitor the child after the shots. Kids share drinks, food, saliva and god knows what else, the risk of not immunising is far greater than risk of side effects. Our Son ended up that healthy, that at 16 he got over Glandular Fever in 2Wks & was able to return to school, he was doing a pre apprenticeship course, if he'd lost 6mths of study the apprenticeship he had lined up would have vanished. Cheers P.L.
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RHP User
10 years ago
But Damn you KIS, get out of my head lol Health care worker see it, I don't know any that if they can, haven't. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
If it has a positive effect in getting kids immunized I'm for it, but if it's just about punishing people who think differently from me then I'm against it. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
The more that vaccinate the better the immunity of the whole herd. The risks are well outweighed by the benefits.As a farmer I once made the mistake of not getting more vaccine for the last "few" lambs I tailed. I was using rubber rings to tail them, of the 100 or so lambs I tailed I lost about 20 to tetanus so I stuffed up really badly. Not only did I lose more than the cost of a pack of vaccine I caused some terrible suffering. Anybody who knows anything about tetanus will know what a horrible disease it is...a lesson hard learned.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Rick_Blaine'It is effectively fining people, isn't it? Disagree, in my view it's different from money being taken from you that is already in your possession.
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RHP User
10 years ago
as a full time single father who gets little to no financial assistance from my ex, I can speak to what a lifesaver the Family Tax Benefit was on occasion in the early days. So taking it away ultimately penalises vulnerable kids further. And only people with incomes below $90k get it anyway (I believe), so this isn't going to affect the middle class suburbs like Bondi and Manly where herd immunity is already below safe levels.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Wholeheartedly agree with the opinions above. Having two vaccinated children, one with autism, and both having contracted whooping cough under 3 years of age, I get a little worked up over this issue sometimes. The science is hard to refute. I absolutely believe in the right to consciously object to vaccinating your kids, go for your life! But if you choose not to, you should respect my right to have my children (and the elderly and immuno-compromised) not put at risk by your un-vaccinated children. I definitely think this is a wise move, but perhaps redirect that funding into the health system. I'd like to see my taxes propping up a health system that is struggling under the weight created by governments more focussed on protecting other people's rights to make stupid and unhealthy choices for themselves and their family. Flirty x
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RHP User
10 years ago
Ok I never said that I disagreed with vaccination - totally the opposite. A cousin of mine's child died of TB in the UK a couple of years ago and if I had children I would certainly get them vaccinated. But I hate it when the govt tell us we MUST do this or we MUST do that. I have a brain - let me use it! Pusscat xxx
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RHP User
10 years ago
There's a huge difference between an incentive and a direct order, there's the rub.
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RHP User
10 years ago
We think Flydoc has hit the nail on the head.... but in reality does it really matter ? Even if everyone was to accept it and get immunized to try stamp out these nasty bugs they will never completely win as the foreigners from less fortunate countries that dont have the choice of the great health systems we have here will/could be still carrying/passing on these nasty bugs with a free pass to do so because of there religious beliefs.... Personally we think the one choice that should be the one getting changed is the choice to be an organ doner.. it should be compulsory.... your dead you dont need it why wouldnt you want to potentially save 8 lives ? Just a thought :)
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RHP User
10 years ago
I - for once- agree with Tony Abott here ! Bring it on! Quoting 'Keepitsimple72' what they can and can't do. They're just stopping access to government assistance for those who choose not to immunise. The government is responsible for public health, mass immunisation provides protection for the public, including those who cannot immunise due to health issues. If you choose to endanger the public by not immunising, why should you have access to government funding? The anti-vaccination movement is such a first world, priviledged issue. I've lived in a third world country and seen children who are permanently disabled by polio, where measles and whooping cough are still potentially fatal diseases. The priviledge of being able to choose whether to immunise comes about due to the herd immunity provided by everyone else who does immunise. Will it take an epidemic of a preventable disease before people see the dangers of this ridiculous nonsense? Everything you said I agree with 100% The mother of a friend of mine from the US got polio when she was 9. She lived her whole life reminded of that disease limping on one leg - she had no choice back then -whereas our generation has access to this luxury and they decline it? I wonder whether those who choose not to vaccinate also deny antibiotics and pain/fever relief? I wonder if a world wide epidemic with 90% death rate would emerge (a Spanish flu) but a vaccine were available for free would those people who today refuse to vaccinate on the grounds of "personal" or "philosophical" grounds line up to get it? Or just hope they and their loved ones get "lucky"?
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RHP User
10 years ago
A number of years ago I was FORCED into taking a vaccination I believed was going to help me for (insert problem). I was given a dirty batch & 2 weeks later, a VERY major side effect flared up. To this day, it will ALWAYS be with me & I’ll NEVER shake it. I was told by another Dr, if I take that again, I’ll be wheelchair bound for the rest of my life. My immune system won’t take the toxins- it’s that serious.Fast forward some, and my best buddy from high school took his 2 children (6 & 8) to the Docs for their usual shots like ‘good little slaves’ should. Within 2 weeks noticed a vast change in their general mood and behaviour (tired, restless, fidgety, down all the time, unsociable). COMPLETELY opposite to what they were before, the jab. Even Christmas was a non-event for them that year. Fast forward a few years- my close relative had taken their 1y.o child for the usual round of triple shots. Within 3 hours, the child went to sleep- and never woke up again. The Mum & husband have now become recluse, unable to even cope with the enormous amount of grief they now experience. (Did you know that a baby/toddler/child gets the SAME DOSE as a full grown adult..?)Fast forward to 2009- jack of what was going on around me AND MY OWN personal experience, I decided to devote time, (spending hundreds and hundreds of hours studying, learning and researching this), energy and currency to finding out more. In doing so, I’ve learnt all of the terminologies, the gobbeldy-gook doctor speak and the nomenclature of the Sickness Indus…. sorry, sorry- Health Care Industry. Four years later, what I uncovered is toooo much for this forum to explain, but, to say the least, there is a MASSIVE cover up going on..!!Now, I’m ready for the “fall out”, of your comments. BUT, I know what you ‘want’ to believe, because I believed it too. BUT that’s the funny thing about what we believe and what our beliefs are… they both have the word LIE right in the middle of it. The truth can’t be told, it has to be realised, so YOU need to do the research and put the hours in, in order to see the deception for YOURSELF. Otherwise, at least READ THE INSERT, BEFORE the jab. It’s THEIR LEGAL LIABILITY WAIVER (Note- Get Out Of Jail Free card) should something go wrong…..-All the best in your own research-
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RHP User
10 years ago
No government should have right to tell parents whats best for their own children.. Only the parents will know that answer. Most anti-vax parents are actually well informed before they choose to make the decisions..How much more power will people give up before they say enough is enough? People who are vaccinated still contract these diseases. I personally had reactions to almost every single vac i had while in primary school. Its not always black and white.
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QLDtwo4fun
10 years ago
On immunisation I do, If the immunisation causes and extreme reaction, you have either a reaction to the carrier or to the immunisation agent. If you react to the immunisation agent your probably not going to survive exposure to the virus. Childhood deaths from diseases like whooping cough were once common. They are not common now because of immunisation, but if the level of herd immunity drops the level of disease will rise.
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luvsilver
10 years ago
My research on immunisation began seven years ago when my youngest became very ill from his initial immunisations. This research taught me a very valuable lesson.. Research thoroughly absolutely everything for yourself and your children before blindly trusting an "experts" advice and trust no-one but yourself ( least of all the Australian Government) when it comes to the health of your own children. I'm not going to get into a big debate about vaccinating verses non-vaccinating except to say that there is a lot of misinformation and scaremongering out there that shouldn't be so easily associated with the anti vaccination movement. Tony Abbot did a mighty fine job of that this morning:) The relationship between BIG PHARMA and "the science" should be closely scrutinised before blindly accepting it as fact.. another fine example of the nanny state in my opinion... In my house principle and the wellbeing of my children will always prevail over government "incentives" and the almighty dollar !! Mrs. Luvsilver
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RHP User
10 years ago
It appears that there is very little actual science, or at the least, the scientific methods being implemented in regards to the issue.Both the pro and anti sides are steeped in beliefs, many of which they have derived from either corporate media or social media. This does not make for a reasoned debate and a critical method of evaluating information.The elephant in the room is that the major drug companies have due to their large political contributions in the us, far too much influence over public policy and legislation there. The FDA is primarily funded by companies seeking approval, so is wholly dependant on them seeking approval for new products on a constant basis. And the drug companies answer to their shareholders, not the public, so their interests are not altruistic as many would have us believe. This is not to take anything away from the millions that have been spared the agony and deaths from diseases that we can prevent by the vaccination process.But we do need in all cases of public health to have independent oversight by scientists with nothing to gain or lose from objective research and delivery of their findings. In Europe the swine flu vaccine has disproportionate numbers strike with side effects such as narcolepsy and in the U.S, enormous sums have been paid out for those who have had reactions to the HPV vaccine which has in some cases resulted in sterility.Simply put, we must always be vigilant and maintain an environment where questions can be asked, and then those qualified and with no ulterior motives can provide us with the best information so that we can make informed decisions.Mandating something as far reaching as vaccines is a typical knee jerk reaction by a government that has demonstrated on far too many occasions that they are very receptive the big business wishes, so again, questions of motivation are valid.Yes, vaccinations are brilliant and are a great step forward to eradicating preventable diseases, but the two opposing camps, pro and anti are acting like religious fundamentalists, steeped in unsubstantiated beef why crying "science" at any opportunity, while denying a true scientific approach or questioning, research, more questioning, establishing results and then being open to question them again.
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luvsilver
10 years ago
Quoting 'Flirty_butterfly' No government should have right to tell parents whats best for their own children.. Only the parents will know that answer. Most anti-vax parents are actually well informed before they choose to make the decisions..How much more power will people give up before they say enough is enough? People who are vaccinated still contract these diseases. I personally had reactions to almost every single vac i had while in primary school. Its not always black and white. HEAR HEAR Flirty! Mrs.Luvsilver
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Flirty_butterfly' Most anti-vax parents are actually well informed before they choose to make the decisions. Really?
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luvsilver
10 years ago
Quoting 'VWGolfGTIQIK20Z' A number of years ago I was FORCED into taking a vaccination I believed was going to help me for (insert problem). I was given a dirty batch & 2 weeks later, a VERY major side effect flared up. To this day, it will ALWAYS be with me & I’ll NEVER shake it. I was told by another Dr, if I take that again, I’ll be wheelchair bound for the rest of my life. My immune system won’t take the toxins- it’s that serious.Fast forward some, and my best buddy from high school took his 2 children (6 & 8) to the Docs for their usual shots like ‘good little slaves’ should. Within 2 weeks noticed a vast change in their general mood and behaviour (tired, restless, fidgety, down all the time, unsociable). COMPLETELY opposite to what they were before, the jab. Even Christmas was a non-event for them that year. Fast forward a few years- my close relative had taken their 1y.o child for the usual round of triple shots. Within 3 hours, the child went to sleep- and never woke up again. The Mum & husband have now become recluse, unable to even cope with the enormous amount of grief they now experience. (Did you know that a baby/toddler/child gets the SAME DOSE as a full grown adult..?)Fast forward to 2009- jack of what was going on around me AND MY OWN personal experience, I decided to devote time, (spending hundreds and hundreds of hours studying, learning and researching this), energy and currency to finding out more. In doing so, I’ve learnt all of the terminologies, the gobbeldy-gook doctor speak and the nomenclature of the Sickness Indus…. sorry, sorry- Health Care Industry. Four years later, what I uncovered is toooo much for this forum to explain, but, to say the least, there is a MASSIVE cover up going on..!!Now, I’m ready for the “fall out”, of your comments. BUT, I know what you ‘want’ to believe, because I believed it too. BUT that’s the funny thing about what we believe and what our beliefs are… they both have the word LIE right in the middle of it. The truth can’t be told, it has to be realised, so YOU need to do the research and put the hours in, in order to see the deception for YOURSELF. Otherwise, at least READ THE INSERT, BEFORE the jab. It’s THEIR LEGAL LIABILITY WAIVER (Note- Get Out Of Jail Free card) should something go wrong…..-All the best in your own research-Well said VW I'm with you all the way and yes that's exactly what my YEARS OF RESEARCH have uncovered plus so much more...... You and I need to do coffee... Mrs. Luvsilver
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'dcat82' Personally we think the one choice that should be the one getting changed is the choice to be an organ doner.. it should be compulsory.... your dead you dont need it why wouldnt you want to potentially save 8 lives ? Just a thought :) I'm with you on that, Dcat!
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Mischeviouslad
10 years ago
I see it this way.... We live in what we like to call a modern, respectful civilised society.Part of that, is behaving in a manner which does not adversely affect other people as a result of our choices. By immunising yourself and your children, you are protecting the health of other people which you will never know you've helped to not suffer from really virulent and disastrous diseases. Do a search for videos of babies with whooping cough, or small pox, or polio..... and try not to be scared.And then ask yourself .... would you risk your child catching these diseases... which immunisation has all but eradicated in 'modern societies'. OR....... Think about it like this....... We are VERY quick to criticise someone for not practicing safe sex... and risking the health of themselves and others. BUT.......Engaging in sexual activity is a choice people make. Spreading infectious and often deadly airborne diseases from child to child.... isn't. Get the jab. Don't be a dick.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I have had all my childhood immunization. I had extra set of Polio, Tetanus, Diphteria and MMR, several ones for travels and the annual flu vaccine. but the 1 year I could not have the flu vaccine I contracted MERS and ended up in hospital with P.E as complication from flying 27hrs with pneumonia - despite taking blood thinning medication- F=! hell yeah I will take all the vaccines available - and will only accept visitors with a full vaccination record when I am expecting...no jab no visit... vaccination is not a question of belief it is the question of duty..If soneone's unvaccinated child can bring deadly diseases to school then my child can bring penaut butter sandwich and a MARS bar for lunch..be equal.
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RHP User
10 years ago
...but at least an "opt out" system rather than the "opt in" one we have now. It'd not only make a hell of a lot of people's lives a hell of a lot better, it'd save the country over a quarter of a billion dollars a year in maintenance health care.
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RHP User
10 years ago
not too long ago a well known actress had a double mastectomy.....she had not been diagnosed with breast cancer; but was in a very high probability category or whatever of contracting breast cancer. If I remember correctly I called her a dope.... But; the motivation behind her decision was mitigation of risk. So I ask; if mitigation of risk for breast cancer is such a supported choice, why is it different for vaccination?? After all it's mitigation of risk....is it not?? - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
My pint of view only and it's my choice for better health of my most prized joys in life. I looked at high sides the first time I became a father and as the list grew I went over those options each time (I have six children) for me the benefits are much better having the medications then not having. Again this was my choice but I do believe we should maintain those choices and not be black mailed into them...
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RHP User
10 years ago
Choice is what Abbott said about the aboriginals living in out back? But they where born there so it's more then choice it's life for them... My point here is if for what ever reason u decide not to have the meds then I believe it's a choice of your beliefs (be it religion or other) Yes I'm a pale skin black fella
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RHP User
10 years ago
If you do not wish to support and protect your community. Then why should your community support you finacially.
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RHP User
10 years ago
No need to yell or brace yourself. The reason for this topic was to hear the opinions of people both for and against the government's actions, and (indirectly) for and against the vaccinations themselves. Although as a nurse I completely disagree with what you wrote, of course you have as much right to be here as everyone else. Thank you for sharing.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Sure Meander, but you can't dissagree with what I've persoanlly been through. What's happened to my friends. What's happened to my family. My research. The doctors who have slammed their doors shut when I've started to ask questions which have cut a little 'close to the bone'- because, the facts are the facts. You can have you own opinion, but you can't argue with someone who brings common sense & logic, reason, and discernment to a debate. I only take this position because of my experiences. NOTHING I say will change anyone else's mind anyway- I'm not so highfalutin to believe that- but I do say, JUST READ THE INSERT, please--- pretty please... I know people don't have time to do what I did- BUT THEY CAN READ THE INSERT- it actually tells you what it will do to you....
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RHP User
10 years ago
I just don't want people being hurt anymore by the big pHARMa industry.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I doubt this governments motivation, our well being or saving a $$$$ ? Further I disagree with penalising people financially, it is the child who will suffer further and I think it is a bit of a draconian precedent to set. We had antivax friends when we had babies so I did my homework and like most "researchers" I used the internet, it did not take me long to realise that it was the same specious arguments and dubious "research" being recycled around and around with increasing degrees of hysteria. I'm in my 50's I remember kids in primary school in calipers to hold up limbs mangled from having polio. The vaccines may not be perfect, yes pharmaceutical companies make money, the bottom line though is it is still a way way way smaller risk to the child to immunise than to not.
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RHP User
10 years ago
VWgolf is spot on! Pusscat xxx
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'VWGolfGTIQIK20Z' I just don't want people being hurt anymore by the big pHARMa industry. Polio is much more acceptable ?
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Rick_Blaine' This is a tough one for me. I hate the anti-science, hysterical, cult-like nature of the anti-immunisation brigade, but I also believe strongly in people's right to define their own lives as much as possible without government intervention. Of course, this is more complex than that, because children can't decide for themselves, and other people's children are put at risk by the unvaccinated ones... but instinctively this legislation concerns me. Particularly, coupled as it is, with so much other freedom encroaching legislation that's being ushered through parliament with bipartisan complicity. A "like" doesn't convey how strongly I agree with all your points.
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AnnieWhichway
10 years ago
Shouldn't be any child rebates or child care rebates at all anyway.If you want children, have them.Can't afford them don't.Why should the rest of us pay for someone to have children.Especially when the world is overpopulatedSimples.......... Putting bullet proof vest and helmet on here...........
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RHP User
10 years ago
It's funny how everyone assumes that it is the low socio economic members of our society that is causing the edidemic. With all the free clinics that are around there is no excuse not to have it done. The vaccinate your child or lose your payments came in when my eldest was under 2. This is not a new policy. Also schools and child care centers have always been able to exclude the unvaccinated from their facilities. I would like to see someone crunch the numbers on how many of the unvaccinated children are from other socioeconomic back grounds. The families I know that have not vaccinated their children do not recieve any benifits or tax incentives from the government. Vaccinating my children did not stop us from contracting whooping cough or the mumps or chicken pox. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
Smallpox
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Mischeviouslad
10 years ago
Quoting 'Drahnee'Vaccinating my children did not stop us from contracting whooping cough or the mumps or chicken pox. No, it didn't. But without the antigens in their system from the vaccine, that strengthened their bodies natural immune response to exposure to those diseases...... .... catching some of those diseases just might have killed them.
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RHP User
10 years ago
The process of giving birth does not instantly make one an expert on science, medicine, epidemiology or pharmacology. And the process of giving birth does not instantly mean that your opinions are suddenly more valued than before you had sprog.
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Lovinit28andKC72
10 years ago
So only the rich should Breed? Should we go back to husband, wife and 2.5 children too. The husband goes out and earns the money and the good little wife stays at home, cooks, cleans, fucks, oh and looks after the children.....💋
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RHP User
10 years ago
Can I read your research please? Which journal did you publish in? What incidence of "bad reactions" did you find in the general population? Which methods did you use to define as bad reaction vs moderate or mild? What was the incidence of mild or no reaction as compared to bad reaction? Was it the same for every vaccine that you studied? Thanks in advance. Would love to read your results :)
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RHP User
10 years ago
No disrespect for your medical issues. And my best wishes for your continuing health. But your post is a classic example of a "confirmation bias". p.s. The plural of anecdote is not data.
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PL1963
10 years ago
I agree with "Lovin It". You are totally "off line" here. Without Kids, there is no future. My Son's taxes will be paying for your "festered" retirement. Kids are the future, if you had none, that's why you don't understand. I've always worked hard, paid my taxes & when I had a "nervous breakdown" in 2001, I got nothing, I owned my house and had money in the bank, I spent $17K to support my family & got $357 in benefits for 6mths off work, when I could not work. You are very narrow minded. If all the kids came from "rich parents" who would serve you in a Supermarket? I think you should retract your last statement. P.L.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I find it amusing that people say things like. "It's my life ! I can do what I want." The issue is your childs health and the health of other peoples children. So if i have Measles it's ok for me to go to a Westfield shopping centre and enjoy "My Life" because i do what ever I want ? Laws are in place to stop idiots doing "What ever I want". I certainly think that subsidising people who put their children & other childrens lives at risk because they (THE Parents) want to be super duper alternative and special is wrong. No Jab, No pay. Herd Immunity only works until someone gets sick, the large the proportion of the herd that doesn't vaccinate the higher potential to wipe out the herd with something that can & is cureable by preventative medicines. You have a headache, you take aspirin, you have a cold you take cough mixture and chicken soup. Stop being so selfish and think of the consequences of what you are subjecting your children to. This really annoys me that people can be so stupid & selfish.
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RHP User
10 years ago
You can share my vest, as I'm with you on the having to pay for other people's kids comment.
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DynamicCouple36
10 years ago
Both our kids were vaccinated, on schedule, in their early years. Since then however we have done a lot of research with regards the safety of vaccinations. Not all vaccines work 100% of the time, nor do they offer 100% protection. Many people have become very ill as a result of being vaccinated and many more have died. If vaccines worked 100% of the time and offered 100% protection then why would the vaccinated be so concerned that the unvaccinated were spreading diseases and putting vaccinated kids at risk ? There are thousands of civil and criminal lawsuits against the manufactures. There are also vaccine damages tribunals and courts that have been set up in order to compensate those damaged by vaccines. We got mumps, measles and chickenpox as kids. We survived and are now considered 100% immune for the rest of our lives. Those who were vaccinated against the above 3, at the most will be immune for 10-13 years, after which they will need a booster shot. How many adults in here have had their booster shots? Recently there was a Guardasil vaccination drive at our kids school. Boys and girls were given the shot. So many became very ill as a result. There are reports by some of the doctors that developed Guardasil that it does not work and also that it has serious side effects. There are allegations that many young women have died from the vaccine. HPV is not life threatening and in this case the risks of the vaccination outweigh the rewards. The Flu vaccine is around 23% effective and recent studies have shown that it causes one to get flu in later years. People are also contagious for a short time after being vaccinated we have read. Big Pharma make a lot of money from all of this and if you look at what's happening in the USA it's obvious that they have greased the palms of many a politician in an attempt to force everyone to get jabbed with their potentially toxic products. There are reports of lab studies being altered and faked. Just who do we trust ? It's best to research as much as possible so that one can make an informed choice. - Posted from rhpmobile
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DynamicCouple36
10 years ago
What we forgot to add is that it's very important that we are all free to make an informed choice. If that choice were to be taken away and for example all of us were forced to take a certain pill or to be microchipped etc , can you imagine the ramifications ? Can you imagine medication without consent? The medical companies (big Pharma) bribe the politicians to pass laws forcing the people to be injected with chemical X??? Our water is fluoridated and this is medication without consent . There are hundreds of reports proving that fluoride is toxic and that it's made no difference with regards tooth decay. Europe does not fluoridate it's water. A few Canadian city councils have been successfully sued re fluoridation. Let's hope that big Pharma does not bribe our politicians and that they then start passing laws that force us to comply ...., as then we will lose our freedom of choice. As matters stand we have become a nanny state and unlike other countries package inserts / product labels are removed from the box the medication came in. Ask yourselves why ? They don't want us to be too well informed. We might start asking questions. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
10 years ago
It's a simplistic view of what is a much broader issue..should the single person with no children not have to contribute tax wise to anything that involves families with children...child care,school ,medical expenses..of course not...we are all paying taxes for many things not related directly to us..but this issue is a complex and emotive one..personal choice versus community welfare...xxFreya
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RHP User
10 years ago
But that's a whole different topic in itself.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Freya79' It's a simplistic view of what is a much broader issue..should the single person with no children not have to contribute tax wise to anything that involves families with children...child care,school ,medical expenses..of course not...we are all paying taxes for many things not related directly to us..but this issue is a complex and emotive one..personal choice versus community welfare...xxFreya Thanks Freya this is a good point I am a single person with no children and pay my taxes - which go to families with children ( I dont receive a benefit from) or unemployed (have not spent a single day on the dole EVER) or students (I paid for my own education including the multiple universities) or pensioners, the sick etc. Aside from the 900 AUD from KRudd I never got anything from the government -no rebates, no benefits nothing- yet I never questioned "why am I paying taxes to help OTHERS in the community" I work, I pay my taxes as this is what we who are part of a community do - so why is vaccination different?? And If one does not vaccinate do they use a seatbelt? A seatbelt will save your life but -most likely- will crush your chest giving you days of pain and misery - I know it happened to me- yet it is accepted that if you do not wear your seatbelt then the government can fine you and you have to pay the fine. But when it comes to vaccinations -which is the seatbelt against serious disease then one can claim "I do not agree" and avoid using it - why? Why is a seatbelt that prevents your brain from plashing over the windscreen is OK to use but vaccination is not? I just cannot get my head around the argument against vaccination on the grounds of "personal choice" it is not a personal choice -your choice impacts the community therefore exemption should only be granted on medical grounds.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Meander' But that's a whole different topic in itself. after you'd expressed your opinion on it. If it weren't for child care payments me and my 3 kids would've been on the streets after my marriage ended. As it was, with the small time I was claiming support I was able to finish my degree, work night shifts and begin my current career. I now earn enough that I don't qualify for any government support and I'm happy that a small percentage of my taxes go to help those who need a hand up.
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AnnieWhichway
10 years ago
I did make an all encompassing statement but the basic principal would exclude deserted wife situations etc. Its when there are incentives available to encourage people to make decisions that would not normally be taken. Ie having an extra child that we can afford by the extra money from the government. And some single women that continue to breed by extra money every time they have a child to another different father. Just my opinion. Im not necessarily right. Money that can be put toward drugs that may improve the quality of life for those that are suffering instead of promoting a breeding program. Sorry OP for being off topic. And fasten your helmet... Annie
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AnnieWhichway
10 years ago
Hey thats an interesting idea. Could that ever work? Insert timid looking emoticon here.....xx
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RHP User
10 years ago
Try America, it's summer now.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Keepitsimple72' Quoting 'Meander' But that's a whole different topic in itself. after you'd expressed your opinion on it. I think I merely gave Annie some back -up, but ok. Quoting 'Mischeviouslad' without the antigens in their system from the vaccine, that strengthened their bodies natural immune response to exposure to those diseases...... .... catching some of those diseases just might have killed them. Agree. The flu shot may not prevent you from catching the flu, but it helps you not die from it.
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RHP User
10 years ago
... and being none the wiser, I would have agreed that people should be made to vaccinate their children. In retrospect of having used vaccines to promote human health for a couple of centuries [and more recently animal health (which is where the bulk of my reasoning stems from)], there is an alarming number of correlations between vaccines and disease to suggest that vaccines may have done as much to precipitate as to prevent disease. I strongly believe nosodes are an effective (if not better) alternative to vaccinations and would like to see them recognised as such and be given the choice to make an informed decision as to choose one or the other.
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AnnieWhichway
10 years ago
"Loved your post. WTF does "festered retirement" mean? And dont pretend to know my family status. What because im a crossdresser, i dont have kids? Whilst my taxes will help fund low interest loans for your sons university education, i will hopefully get a minute amount of my lifes donation of taxes back as a pension. No retraction required, I'm expressing an opinion, just like you
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Lovinit28andKC72
10 years ago
As my dear old dad used to say "there's only 2 guarantees in life, that's death and taxes" how right he was..... Oh and yes my children have all been vaccinated, but not for what I could get off the government, but to keep them safe and healthy......💋
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RHP User
10 years ago
The above's a fact that is a common denominator for those of us who have differing view on the matter.As a believer in the concept of vaccination I feel that all believers should hold there views and do what they can to hold onto the herd immunity.Those who read the book Sex at Dawn might recollect some mention of sexually transmitted disease working their way into our "herd", from rare to prevalent and even onto treatment resistant and incurable.Choose carefully as anything that can happen will happen...eventuallyDisclaimer; the above observation is taken out of context and refers to the gaming industry, its likelihoods and odds.
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PL1963
10 years ago
I don't judge ppl on their sexual preferences, I didn't infer you had no kids because you're a CD, something I want to try myself with a nice lady that is into it. You've assumed my Son is at Uni, wrong. I come from 5 generations of Farmers, Market Gardeners, Tradesmen and self employed ppl. I started part time work when I was 12, in a Cake shop and washing trucks. Finished yr10 & got an apprenticeship as a Diesel Mechanic, have always worked 50-60hrs p/wk. I bought my house at 23, paid it off & reno'd it by the time I was 30. All my side of the family are the same. My Pop was self employed till 55, he then retired from ill health, never got a full pension till 75 when his own wealth was gone & not from living lavishly. My father, 30yrs self employed in Engineering, retired at 63 be because his body was worn out. I just did a 5hr arv shift @ $28.40 p/hr casual, as Semi Driver, you only get paid what you work, no A/L, no sick pay and provide all your own PPE. This is what "Industrial Reform" has done to workers. The Co I work for employ 50% casual & are "pushing" their full time Drivers on an EBA out the door, by any means they can. When my Son was born in 96', I started putting away $ the 1st wk, for tutoring , private education or Uni, we were lucky, he was extremely acidemicaly talented & breezed thru school. He started earning pocket money from my folks, helping maintain their 2 acre property as soon as he could work a mower, but had already been "chopping out", as my Dad was struggling to maintain the place and didn't want to sell his "nest egg", Super was a joke when he was working for himself, he worked 12hr days 6-7 days p/wk for 10yrs straight without a holiday. By the time my Son was in Yr10, his teachers were touting him for Uni, he told his mum he was gunna' be a "Tradie". He wanted to do work experience as a Sparky or Plumber, he did 1wk with a mate of mine prior to the June school holidays, came home the 1st nite, wet, muddy & with "Lipstick on his Ears" he was "grinnin' so hard & said, "Don't worry about the Sparky thing Dad, I'm gunna' be a Plumber", my mate only had to pay him $5 p/day, on the Friday nite he came home $100, I rang my mate & he said, "I wouldn't have paid that if he wasn't worth it". From that day on, every spare hr he had was spent working, by the end of Yr11, he completed 50% of Yr12 a "pre apprenticeship course and lined up an Apprenticeship with my mate's old Apprentice who had gone out on his own, he's still there. He run's the Co when his boss is O/S, he paid $17K cash for a car when he was 18. I'm the proudest & happiest Dad alive, as I know if I pas tonite, he will be OK. I understand what you mean about "CentreLink" breeders, 65% of my Cousins on my Mum's side are like this, my Ex's family was the same, 1 of the reasons we split, she was just in it "for a cruisy ride", I don't associate with those type of ppl anymore. But the other side of the coin is young ppl like my neighbours, they have some money for a deposit on a cheap home, they're friendly, look after themselves and their 2 little kiddies are adorable, he works 50hrs p/wk as a labouror on domesitc bldg sites, after 15mths, his boss still refuses to put him on "fulltime". She works W/ends grooming Dog's when Jake, friends or their folks can babysit. They pay $1350 p/mth for a "shithole renter", they're to scared to complain to the Landlord, as when their lease is due, they'll be forced to move on. His old Mitsubishi 4wd blew up & wasn't worth repairing, he wrecked it & sold the parts, they struggled for 2wks with her car, but he needs a vehicle to get to work on time anywhere in Melb as requested. He purchased a modest 4wd, as he is "Casual", the loan was 22%, but he had no option. They don't drink or do drugs, he buys, repairs & sells boats to add to their deposit money. I've given them my old Whipper Snipper, Mower & Dryer to help them out & save money. So in summing up, not everybody fits the "typical image" and we should all be less judgmental and help out the "battlers". Our society is becoming 1 were the "Rich get Richer, & the Poor get Poorer". Midnight Oil song. Yours Faithfully, Nyal Brennan. Lol.
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PL1963
10 years ago
As I said previously, the health centre Nurse alerted us, she stood to gain nothing from it, the vaccines were done by our Dr, she didn't name names, but warned us of what may happen to our Son. Perhaps that is why some kids/ppl all of a sudden contract viruses that don't exist in their families etc. But on a lighter note, it's like "herpes", "no one ever used to talk about it, now it's on everybody's lips". Lol. A very good friend of mine came to visit us in hospital when my boy was born, she had a "cold sore" (herpes), she just wanted to pick him up, cuddle & kiss him, but refused to risk passing on the virus. She got lots of cuddles & kisses later, the "jumpsuit" her bought him is in his "time capsule" for his 21st B/day, extremely well worn, but treasured. Cheers P.L.
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NewHorizons6376
10 years ago
If you honestly believe you still have a right to choose in this country. I would love to come live in your world. - Posted from rhpmobile
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ElleWould
10 years ago
This practice of people to use words taken from within other words to 'strengthen' their arguments just gives me the shits. The fact that 'harm' can be found in the word 'pharmaceuticals' is simply not an indication that they are out to get us! I read an article a while ago proclaiming the innate evilness of gluten and the author had the audacity to suggest that "The trouble is in the name itself, Glue-ten (to be understood as Glue to the power of ten)." WTF?! I find it difficult to read, with any seriousness, emotive rantings where people try to sway me by writing in capitals, using excessive exclamation marks and putting words or phases unnecessarily in quotation marks. VWgolf - I'm sorry for the bad experiences you and those you know have had. I can not comment on whether they were all as a result of vaccinations. I can add my own anecdotal 'evidence' though and say that all of my children have had all of their vaccinations and not a single one of them has died, been injured or developed autism (I know, I know...it's not a real side effect). So, therefore, jabs must be 100% safe, right? No, of course there are risks involved, it says so on the insert, and some people do react badly but we deemed it a reasonable risk. Phew... Sorry Meander...to your question....Should people be made to immunise their kids? I don't know, we make people wear seatbelts in cars. People don't tend to complain that they got a bruise from it when they crash. I think that this change isn't making parents DO anything, you can still choose not to immunise. Emotive issue, huh?
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RHP User
10 years ago
Educative rather than punitive measures would've been better. This government loves to punish and inflict pain on the vulnerable. - Posted from rhpmobile
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DynamicCouple36
10 years ago
A recent scientific study has allegedly proven that 86% of those who contracted measles as a result of that Disney outbreak, were in fact vaccinated against measles ...... makes one think does it not ?
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RHP User
10 years ago
I have no problem with dissenters I think it's healthy and there is no question vaccines have issues, but when the dissenters propagate lies, misinformation and downright fear mongering we have a problem. I have a long and trusting relationship with my gp and I haven't been let down.
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TallBaldSexy
10 years ago
Easy - Vaccination regardless of rebate, subsidy, or any other govt assistance. My children's health takes precedence and social responsibility's a great Bi product.
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TallBaldSexy
10 years ago
Page 5 now :-)
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'Jason_Leslie' A recent scientific study has allegedly proven that 86% of those who contracted measles as a result of that Disney outbreak, were in fact vaccinated against measles ...... makes one think does it not ? This is from the BBC article: "A California measles outbreak that has been traced back to Disneyland in Anaheim is prompting concern over the growing trend among some parents to avoid immunising their children against infectious diseases.According to state officials, there are currently 59 cases of the highly contagious disease in California, which can be spread through the air and results in a fever, cough and rash that can be life-threatening. "Of the confirmed cases, 42 have been linked to an initial exposure in December at Disneyland or Disney California Adventure Park in Anaheim, California," the California Department of Public Health writes in a press release. There are eight additional cases connected to Disneyland in other western US states and Mexico. Public health experts say the disease was probably brought to the amusement park packed with holiday tourists by a foreign visitor, but it has spread in part due to the lower numbers of Americans who have been opting to receive the immunisation shots.The US government announced in 2000 that measles had been eradicated in the country, but the disease has seen a steady rebound since then. The US Centers for Disease Control reports there were 644 new measles cases in 27 states last year - the highest number since the early 1990s.The vaccination levels for children ages 19 to 35 months in the US stood at 91.9% in 2013, below the 92% rate that ensures "herd immunity" that offers protection for those who can't get immunised for medical reasons and adults whose immunisation has worn off. In Colorado, where two of the Disney-related cases have appeared, the rate was a national-low 86%." I think you may have misread, the article states the measles were able to spread because only 86% of people were vaccinated in Colorado.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'xKiwiBredx' ... and being none the wiser, I would have agreed that people should be made to vaccinate their children. In retrospect of having used vaccines to promote human health for a couple of centuries [and more recently animal health (which is where the bulk of my reasoning stems from)], there is an alarming number of correlations between vaccines and disease to suggest that vaccines may have done as much to precipitate as to prevent disease. I strongly believe nosodes are an effective (if not better) alternative to vaccinations and would like to see them recognised as such and be given the choice to make an informed decision as to choose one or the other. if the nosodes are diluted to the point they have no active ingredient then I think you really should call them by what they are, "placebos". I think it is telling to see the rise in anti-vaxxers tracked with incidence of outbreaks largely dealt with by vaccinations. But as to anti-vaccination in general - the fact that all vaccinations are targeted should ring alarm bells - it isn't just "batch XYZ for Mumps from lab ABC is known defective", or "vaccine 123 isn't effective because the disease is now more commonly strain 456" it is just "all vaccinations". Quoting 'Jason_Leslie' A recent scientific study has allegedly proven that 86% of those who contracted measles as a result of that Disney outbreak, were in fact vaccinated against measles ...... makes one think does it not ? references?I haven't seen anywhere near that number, but like RHP, disease spread is a numbers game ;) Measles is very infectious, and measles vaccine is 97% effective after the recommended 2 doses, so if you exposed a room of 100 properly immunised people to it, maybe 3 people get it - but then that means "100% of those immunised contracted the disease". (disclaimer, over simplification follows) Now, go to Disneyland - that place is packed! So, measles is rated about 90% contagious to non-immunised - if you have 1000 people in a packed space like an amusement park, and 90% immunisation rate, thats 100 non-immunised, you'd expect about 90 non-immunised people getting it, and of the 900 you'll get 27. Now, thats 27:90, or about 23% of people with measles immunised against it. (If you change the immunisation rate to 95% then the percentage of immunised catching it raises to nearly 39% - but your total cases drops from about 117 to about 74)
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luvsilver
10 years ago
Quoting 'Jason_Leslie' What we forgot to add is that it's very important that we are all free to make an informed choice. If that choice were to be taken away and for example all of us were forced to take a certain pill or to be microchipped etc , can you imagine the ramifications ? Can you imagine medication without consent? The medical companies (big Pharma) bribe the politicians to pass laws forcing the people to be injected with chemical X??? Our water is fluoridated and this is medication without consent . There are hundreds of reports proving that fluoride is toxic and that it's made no difference with regards tooth decay. Europe does not fluoridate it's water. A few Canadian city councils have been successfully sued re fluoridation. Let's hope that big Pharma does not bribe our politicians and that they then start passing laws that force us to comply ...., as then we will lose our freedom of choice. As matters stand we have become a nanny state and unlike other countries package inserts / product labels are removed from the box the medication came in. Ask yourselves why ? They don't want us to be too well informed. We might start asking questions. - Posted from rhpmobile J_L HEAR HEAR guys I'm with you on all posts !! As for these insidious Secondary school vaccinations, they were handing out lollipops as incentives to the kids so I told them what they can do with their lollipops and bought my twins a bag of the things and gave them the afternoon of school..
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luvsilver
10 years ago
Quoting 'xKiwiBredx' ... and being none the wiser, I would have agreed that people should be made to vaccinate their children. In retrospect of having used vaccines to promote human health for a couple of centuries [and more recently animal health (which is where the bulk of my reasoning stems from)], there is an alarming number of correlations between vaccines and disease to suggest that vaccines may have done as much to precipitate as to prevent disease. I strongly believe nosodes are an effective (if not better) alternative to vaccinations and would like to see them recognised as such and be given the choice to make an informed decision as to choose one or the other. Having gone down this path myself with my youngest( after much intense research) in reference to the use of nosodes, I couldn't agree more and it is a shame that people just assume ones decision not to vaccinate via mainstream channels renders us reckless in relation to our children's health and mainstream "herd immunity" and non deserving of recognition by governing bodies or any other when they are largely unaware that there are alternative proactive (and indeed effective)choices we as informed parents adopt to protect our children and the children of others.. It will be interesting to see if the government recognises this choice by some in their Fine Print - I think not...
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RHP User
10 years ago
Let me start on 'childhood diseases'. Rubella, measles (yes they are different), mumps and chicken pox are all killer diseases, in children and adults. Implications of contracting these 'childhood maladies' include sterility, deafness and death. I had three of these growing up, without any long term issues that I know about, but I wish I didn't go through the experience. The extra ice cream wasn't worth it.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'VWGolfGTIQIK20Z' A number of years ago I was FORCED into taking a vaccination I believed was going to help me for (insert problem). I was given a dirty batch & 2 weeks later, a VERY major side effect flared up. To this day, it will ALWAYS be with me & I’ll NEVER shake it. I was told by another Dr, if I take that again, I’ll be wheelchair bound for the rest of my life. My immune system won’t take the toxins- it’s that serious.Fast forward some, and my best buddy from high school took his 2 children (6 & 8) to the Docs for their usual shots like ‘good little slaves’ should. Within 2 weeks noticed a vast change in their general mood and behaviour (tired, restless, fidgety, down all the time, unsociable). COMPLETELY opposite to what they were before, the jab. Even Christmas was a non-event for them that year. Fast forward a few years- my close relative had taken their 1y.o child for the usual round of triple shots. Within 3 hours, the child went to sleep- and never woke up again. The Mum & husband have now become recluse, unable to even cope with the enormous amount of grief they now experience. (Did you know that a baby/toddler/child gets the SAME DOSE as a full grown adult..?)Fast forward to 2009- jack of what was going on around me AND MY OWN personal experience, I decided to devote time, (spending hundreds and hundreds of hours studying, learning and researching this), energy and currency to finding out more. In doing so, I’ve learnt all of the terminologies, the gobbeldy-gook doctor speak and the nomenclature of the Sickness Indus…. sorry, sorry- Health Care Industry. Four years later, what I uncovered is toooo much for this forum to explain, but, to say the least, there is a MASSIVE cover up going on..!!Now, I’m ready for the “fall out”, of your comments. BUT, I know what you ‘want’ to believe, because I believed it too. BUT that’s the funny thing about what we believe and what our beliefs are… they both have the word LIE right in the middle of it. The truth can’t be told, it has to be realised, so YOU need to do the research and put the hours in, in order to see the deception for YOURSELF. Otherwise, at least READ THE INSERT, BEFORE the jab. It’s THEIR LEGAL LIABILITY WAIVER (Note- Get Out Of Jail Free card) should something go wrong…..-All the best in your own research- I was wondering how long it would take before a tin foil hat brigade member stepped up to the plate. Lets see, shall we follow decades upon decades of real scientific research and proven results or shall we follow the ravings of a conspiracy theorist with a couple of dodgy anecdotes. Tough decision.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I remember reading an extract of a paper someone wrote, a hundred or two years ago, about 'The Social Contract'. The basis of this paper was that, if you want to live in a civilized society, there are rules and expectations that you must adhere to. Just paying taxes is not enough. Violence is not acceptable, neither is acting in a manner that may cause harm to another. This notion has been around for thousands of years. By not immunising your kids against these diseases, you are breaking this basic rule of living in a civilised society. Polio and small pox was considered eradicated in first world countries during the eighties. Now they're making a come back?? We live in an age of scientific marvels, why would we start disputing the science that has the average age of a person at death almost twice the average 150 years ago and a child born today will, most likely, live to well over one hundred. Research as much as you want. Please ensure the material you're reading is peer reviewed and has been replicated by an independent body at least twice before you start believing it.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'VWGolfGTIQIK20Z' I just don't want people being hurt anymore by the big pHARMa industry. Looking forward to your research on 9/11 and was Oswald the lone gunman?
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PL1963
10 years ago
That is the reason the Gov't is doing this, all this stuff has been avail in the past "free", but ppl still don't get their kids done, some can't be bothered, others disagree with it on Religious or whatever grounds. One of the best forms of immunity for newborns is breastfeeding, but some women refuse because of the "saggy boobs myth". I wouldn't have a child with a woman who refused to breastfeed. Cheers P.L.
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RHP User
10 years ago
I loathe the 'Nanny State' we live in, an opinion my uncle shares. A couple of Christmases ago, I was in Townsville, having a couple of quiet ones with one of my favourite people, my father's brother, when he got on to one of our.favourite topics. 'The Nanny State'. This day, he decided to rail against .05 and the speeding laws. Now I'm sure, most of you will agree these are good laws. He went on to say he doesn't believe these laws have done much to bring down the fatalities on the road. At the time, I was flicking through the rag they call a 'newspaper', the Townsville Bulletin. A poor excuse for a poor publication call The Courier Mail. On page two, or three, the state's death toll on the roads to that point of the year. It was around 350. Later on in the 'publication', it had a section about what was happening 30 years ago. The road toll for the state was about the same number. Seeing as the population has doubled in that time, I argued that the hardening of these rules, as well as the enforcing of wearing seatbelts and helmets, has definitely saved many lives. Do you se the correlation?
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RHP User
10 years ago
BUM, tee hee.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Maybe what we need, and is probably being investigated, is a pre- needle test for kids that have indicators that they may have a predisposition for an adverse reaction to the injections? Yes, that maybe an extra money maker for the big bad guys but it may help convince the people who are wavering.
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RHP User
10 years ago
Quoting 'luvsilver' Quoting 'xKiwiBredx' ... and being none the wiser, I would have agreed that people should be made to vaccinate their children. In retrospect of having used vaccines to promote human health for a couple of centuries [and more recently animal health (which is where the bulk of my reasoning stems from)], there is an alarming number of correlations between vaccines and disease to suggest that vaccines may have done as much to precipitate as to prevent disease. I strongly believe nosodes are an effective (if not better) alternative to vaccinations and would like to see them recognised as such and be given the choice to make an informed decision as to choose one or the other. Having gone down this path myself with my youngest( after much intense research) in reference to the use of nosodes, I couldn't agree more and it is a shame that people just assume ones decision not to vaccinate via mainstream channels renders us reckless in relation to our children's health and mainstream "herd immunity" and non deserving of recognition by governing bodies or any other when they are largely unaware that there are alternative proactive (and indeed effective)choices we as informed parents adopt to protect our children and the children of others.. It will be interesting to see if the government recognises this choice by some in their Fine Print - I think not... The Australian registry of Homeopaths does not recommend nosodes as an alternative to immunisation it actually recommends practitioners follow in part, As outlined in the ‘National Competency Standards for Homoeopathy’ (HLTHOM9A - Provide Specific Homoeopathic Assessment and Care) practitioners are obliged to clarify their patients’ expectations and the potential outcomes, and to provide information on infection control procedures, which include the NHMRC- recommended immunisations and management strategies for acute infections (47 - 53)."That document also recommends that practitioners get everything documented and signed to cover their arse if the patient uses nosodes. It's got more holes in it than a cheap insurance policy and certainly nothing I would hang my childrens health on.
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AnnieWhichway
10 years ago
I support VWgolf's view. As l was unable to work for 2 years after a vaccination. "Ask me" You'd be familiar with that term?
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DynamicCouple36
10 years ago
A new study published in the journal JAMA Pediatrics claims to delineate the source and spread of measles during the widely hyped Disneyland measles outbreak, of course blaming the unvaccinated for this ridiculous non-event. But the data points presented in the study reveal that the vast majority of those who caught measles had previously been vaccinated, and yet the outbreak is still somehow being blamed 100% on the unvaccinated. According to information from the study presented by California Healthline, as many as 86% of those who caught measles at Disneyland were fully up to date on their MMR vaccinations for measles, mumps and rubella. This means that none of them should have gotten measles, if you believe the official story anyway. But in the fantasy reality of so-called "herd immunity," 86% just isn't enough to prevent a disease outbreak, or so goes the myth. In order for full protection to be gained, claims the establishment, a 95% vaccination rate is required for vaccines that are 100% effective -- though these numbers often shift between 90% and 99%, or are omitted entirely, depending on the agenda of a particular media report. "Clearly," maintain the study's authors, "MMR vaccination rates in many of the communities that have been affected by this outbreak fall well below the necessary threshold to sustain herd immunity, thus placing the greater population at risk as well." Most outbreak victims were vaccinated, but the unvaccinated are to blame?Ah yes, the infamous herd immunity scapegoat. It's just too convenient for vax-pimping scientists to claim that their precious vaccines don't work because not enough people are getting them. It couldn't be that these vaccines simply don't work at all, as clearly demonstrated by the fact that most of the people affected during disease outbreaks were jabbed in accordance with government guidelines. No, it must be all those crazy anti-vaxxers spreading measles, even though the unvaccinated typically don't contract measles during outbreaks (and thus don't spread it, since they don't actually have it). In this case, only a very small percentage of those affected hadn't been vaccinated, so to surmise that they somehow triggered the outbreak is an absurd stretch. More than likely, it was a vaccinated individual who triggered the outbreak as a result of live attenuated viral vaccines (LAV) like MMR, which are known to shed vaccine-type viruses following vaccine administration. "The public health community is blaming unvaccinated children for the outbreak of measles at Disneyland, but the illnesses could just as easily have occurred due to contact with a recently vaccinated individual," said Sally Fallon Morell, president of the Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF). "Evidence indicates that recently vaccinated individuals should be quarantined in order to protect the public." The jig is up: Vaccines don't work, so give it up already!Though it would be loathe to admit it, the vaccine mafia is clearly losing major ground in its failing war on natural immunity. No matter how these charlatans try to spin the issue, vaccines don't work if people who get them are still contracting disease, supposedly because other people around them aren't getting vaccinated. "At best, vaccines boost our defenses only temporarily," explained Shane Ellison from The People's Chemist. "That's because your immune system is programmed to recognize and attack invaders that come through the biological 'front door.' That would be your nose, mouth and eyes. It doesn't work properly when we shove infection into our body with a needle." Concerning "herd immunity," Ellison adds that it's "nothing more than a silly catch-phrase used to scare and bully parents into vaccinating their kids."
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DynamicCouple36
10 years ago
PHYSICIAN'S WARRANTY OF VACCINE SAFETY I (Physician's name, degree) _______________ , _____ am a physician licensed to practice medicine in the State/Province of _________ . I have a thorough understanding of the risks and benefits of all the medications that I prescribe for or administer to my patients. In the case of (Patient's name) ______________ , age _____ , whom I have examined, I find that certain risk factors exist that justify the recommended vaccinations. The following is a list of said risk factors and the vaccinations that will protect against them: (add as many as needed).. Risk Factor____________________Vaccination _______________________. I am aware that vaccines may contain many of the following chemicals, excipients, preservatives and fillers: * aluminum hydroxide * aluminum phosphate * ammonium sulfate * amphotericin B * animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain * arginine hydrochloride * dog kidney, monkey kidney * dibasic potassium phosphate * chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg * calf (bovine) serum * betapropiolactone * fetal bovine serum * formaldehyde * formalin * gelatin * gentamicin sulfate * glycerol * human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue) * hydrocortisone * hydrolyzed gelatin * mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate(r)) * monosodium glutamate (MSG) * monobasic potassium phosphate * neomycin * neomycin sulfate * nonylphenol ethoxylate * octylphenol ethoxylate * octoxynol 10 * phenol red indicator * phenoxyethanol (antifreeze) * potassium chloride * potassium diphosphate * potassium monophosphate * polymyxin B * polysorbate 20 * polysorbate 80 * porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein * residual MRC5 proteins * sodium deoxycholate * sorbitol * thimerosal * tri(n)butylphosphate, * VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and * washed sheep red blood and, hereby, warrant that these ingredients are safe for injection into the body of my patient. It is my professional opinion that the vaccines I am recommending are safe for administration to babies and children. I am issuing this Physician's Warranty of Vaccine Safety in my professional capacity as the attending physician to (Patient's name) ________________________________. _________________________ (Name of Attending Physician) ______________________ (Signature of Attending Physician) Signed on this _______ day of ______________ Notary Public: _____________ Date: ______________________
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RHP User
10 years ago
What can I say. Hysterical !
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RHP User
10 years ago
You could say that about any medicine a doctor prescribes as nothing is 100 % safe. In fact, the lack of knowledge in regards to the human body is astounding which is why I don't trust them.
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