F53
Masochistic equilibrium
November 02 2013
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
"It is where subconscious dynamics set in childhood are role-modeled and can take over adult relationships and bring toxicity into it. Sometimes people don't know they are doing it and when their comfort zone is unsafe and they want to feel safe and do behaviors to sabotage it due to their own fears."FOXY
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madotara69
11 years ago
Foxy, I have always thought of it like doors closed inside people, and anything that knocks on them is avoided very strongly.Through time and care, it is often what I have referred to as finding the best in people.And yes that stuff staying in peoples thoughts is toxic, until it has been released.But it is hard to explain, because there is a lot with it all. As there is some sort of energy that is part of it all and letting bad energy go, needs to be replaced with good energy.Mado
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RHP User
11 years ago
Is this an anecdote? I feel there is something missing in your definition. Role model for what exactly? And which childhood "dynamics" are we talking about? And what exactly is being sabotaged? I assume relationships. I am quite confused. I'd analyze one sentence - and then find the next sentence contradictory. And I don't like being confused hahaha. Please explain! I want the translated version!
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RHP User
11 years ago
Never heard the term Masochistic Equilibrium (had to Google to check it meant what I thought it would mean) but have heard of the more common reference of Self Sabotage.Up until about 12 months ago, yes absolutely, I was a self inflicted emotional pain freak with a penchant to ruining my own life because I felt that it was all I was good for and all I deserved.Then like a rubber band pulled too tight I snapped and spent several weeks being very glum and introverted whilst I worked out what was wrong.It is an amazing feeling to realize you are worth more than you were told as a child and that you are valued by those around you.For those who feel the pressure of this affliction I would suggest you Google the term and go check out the PositivelyPositive site that should pop up high in the list. And for those men who are too manly for something like that, check out the ManTherapy dot org dot au site.Self help is awesome, working through things with friends is even better. SG.
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On_Safari
11 years ago
Masochistic Equilibrium "you are NOT your past actions. you are NOT your past failures. you are NOT how others have at one time treated you. you are ONLY who you think you are right now in this moment. you are ONLY what you do right now in this moment." Life fact: Lately I have been seeing people what I can call an "enterpainer." They love to entertain people with their own pain, sharing amusing stories full of woes and miffedness. I often at times discover a psychological concept to notice their "entertaining ways." They will bluntly show that they do not care how others feel on what is being said, showed, and felt. This will come across of the I don't care attitude. Often times, they don't think twice about what they say and realize they may be affecting that person and that person doesn't say anything back and learn to accept the things they would say, do, show but deep down inside they are still being hurt. And when the person stands up and speaks the truth, it will still not matter enough to you. In other words, they do it for their own pleasure. They are used to it from growing up and they think it is really like this in real life and often times hate people who have different personalities and differences in thoughts. What is the concept of Masochistic equilibrium? When I first heard this long weird word, I was like huh? I immediately did a lot of researching to truly understand the definition. To find out all examples that meant to the long 2 weird words I never heard in my life. I found that they represent a truly important psychological theory... one which clearly explains how and why sometimes a person's comfort zone might actually be to stay in discomfort. Example: As a child you are supposed to learn about love and happiness from your parents. If you learned love comes with yelling, insults, abuse, then being in a relationship is too much pain that leaves you numb that you will often get what is called "silent anxiety." Snagging an abundance of joy might also trigger you to self-sabotage your happiness in order to maintain that "masochistic equilibrium" which you learned in your childhood. So what you got when you grew up, is what you learned what your life is supposed to be about. Often times there is a diagnosis of masochistic equilibrium hereditary. When people are happy around those who suffer from Masochistic Equilibrium, might simply choose scenarios from the get-go or be nit picking which brings lower levels of love and bliss. Masochistic Equilibrium is discovered in your childhood years when you are trying to discover who you are really supposed to be. This happens from age 4-12. As a child victim of suffering from Masochistic Equilibrium, they basically grew up learning to feel comfy with only a certain level of happiness to almost none. Maybe they grew up not allowed to be happy, not even a small percentage of happiness was allowed. When this concentration shifts... even if it's upwards... you will then start to feel twitchy, because of this new zone feels so unfamiliar. If you get uncomfortable around those who know what love and happiness is, you might want to self-sabotage yourself so you can shift your happiness concentration back down, down, down, down, down to your familiar zone... your masochistic equilibrium. Or as mentioned above, you might simply choose situations right from the start which bring you a familiar level of pain, so as to match the "masochistic equilibrium" you grew up with. Not healthy... How do you break free from the shackles of "Masochistic Equilibrium"? You have to be 100% acceptable to do a lot of goofier things you do because of negative childhood brainwashing... what I call "brain dirtying".. because the lens of the world gets dirtied with the negative beliefs that you must wipe clean. Then, and only then, can you see clearly new paths to getting the life you desire and deserve. One of the best ways to wipe your braindirtied lens clean is to seek alternate positive lessons to past pain. I call this possessing "pain-a-ramic" vision: You see the problems of your past with a full 180-degree positive perspective. In other ways, if there are positive people in life that are around you and they often do habits that don't make sense to you... often come across as people with no common sense. So in your mind, for example, if I have a set plan of something I like to do in order because it makes sense to me and I am comfortable with it, your mind will shift your way and not accept my habit. Automatically, you'll get a silent anxiety attack and start belittling my habit saying what I do is stupid, doesn't make any sense to you, I have no common sense, and you will either get mad and walk away or nit pick and try to start a fight. Again, not healthy for you nor me. So another example, if you did something that made sense to you when you were younger and was comfortable with it... obviously you might've gotten a negative response from someone that was in your life most of the time when you were just trying to discover how to do things that made you happy. So in the eyes of the person that didn't like how you did it, brainwashed you for their own pleasure to get their way or the highway. Painful, huh? So the question is how do you slowly get this pain away? A. First, you have got to relax your mind. Enter a meditative state. B. Dare to think about your most painful incidents. Even if you don't want to, you need to. C. Force yourself to answer the following: What is a positive or lucky way to learn from the past and thereby attain some gain in my pain? List five positive lessons- so you can start to forgive your past... and move forward in a more positive direction. If you have so much pain while trying to do this process, go to the closest person that is positive in your life and ask them for help. Talk to them about the moment that is sparking you with pain. You have to accept fully that you are safe with the person that wants to make sure you will overcome this pain. If you are in a relationship and that person loves you unconditionally, they are perfect. Maybe a friend. After you get done blaming your past for present pain, you must also accept some responsibility. After all, you've been an adult (or adult-ish) (and maybe even just plain ol'doltish) for a while now. Did you know that those who suffer from Masochistic Equilibrium are still a child in so many ways? They are just a child with numbing pain thinking they are an adult in so many ways but mentally they are not. To them it is hard to realize and discover that through their choice of words, actions, etc. They will think they are talking to someone like an adult but the brain itself knows with all the damage they suffered, there is a wall between the person and themself when they talk. So often times, they will say they feel like they are talking to a wall when the person is really listening to them. Although your troublesome subconscious has gotten you into some painful relationships and challenging situations, the time has come for you to show your cerebrum who's boss and stop allowing those misadventures. Also, you can even tell the person who brainwashed you when you were a child, to stop all of their actions of belittling, keep their opinions to themselves, to get help, to stop bringing up something constantly to spark a fight or trigger something that bothers you because they know deep down inside you are getting angry and they are getting happy. So, to stop and learn to become happy: A. Next time you're tempted to settle for a pattern of pain, repeat the following mantra: "I am not my past behavior, I am not my past failures, I am not how others have at one time treated me, I am only who I think I am right now in this moment. And I am only what I do right now in this moment." B. Find examples of consistently happy, loving couples, and truly happy people. Spend as much time as possible with them so you can start to shift your belief system to what "normal love" and "normal happiness" are. Overtime, you will begin to view highly positive situations as examples for your new normal. The more you witness or are around positive people that have lots of examples of love and joy, the more opportunities you will have to change your belief system about life... and thereby start to change your masochistic equilibrium behavior and learn to love yourself and the positive relationships around you. That would be hard work earned and called success. C. Talk with any close people such as girlfriend/boyfriend-wife/husband, positive friends, but not the ones that caused you to this problem. Only the ones that can make you feel safe and have been offering to let you be open about this concept. You'll find that the more you can be honest about repressed feelings and share them, the less troublemaking your subconscious will need to be. D. Recognize that you have triggers that remind you of past pain and might thereby create a downward spiral of negative thinking and behavior. Clear your life of these depressing triggers. For example, you might want to remove items from your home that your ex-spouse has given you, or the person that caused yourself this way. Any type of energy that is from them. Instead, get "trigger happy" and focus on positive triggers that remind you of all your happy relationships. For example, you might want to put up photos in your home that represent happy times, happy people, or happy philosophies you want to live by. E. At last, there's an added sneaky reason why painful patterns form: a theory a la Carl Jung. He believed that our lives need meaning and purpose. If we don't have meaning and purpose, we acquire a bad habit in order to create drama and excitement... so we feel like there's something interesting and entertaining happening in our life... even if it's a bad exciting thing. Jung's name for these patterns of "enterpaining" situations was "low-level spiritual quests." Example, if you have someone who constantly brings something up that bothers them but it doesn't bother you as much because it's something you truly want in your life..they are an enterpainer. They are trying to trigger something in you to get their way. They want to see you in pain and suffer or in another word.. be the middleman. There is nothing in the world that can make them happy. Your decisions, your wants/needs, personal hobbies, people in your life, nothing is good enough for them. And they enjoy it. They are often the type of people to walk around like normal people but to other people they are glass. The good news is that you can readily dump negative patterns of low-level spiritual quests by developing high level spiritual quests- a driving positive force that drives you forward. For example, it's easier to dump negative patterns in love (which give you drama and enterpaining stories to tell), if you develop an exciting hobby or passion-project to serve as your high level spiritual quest (which then gives you excitement and happy entertainment stories to tell). Personally, I discovered a lot of researching and doing things that I love doing which filled my life with far more entertaining things to talk about and lessened my need for enterpainment. However, high level spiritual quests can show up in a variety of forms.You might consider taking up a sport, a new hobby, reading, writing, painting, cooking, etc. You might start training for a marathon or maybe plan a place somewhere exotic. Who knows? Maybe in the process you'll realize that the people around you who are absolutely positive and know how to show happiness are really worth it in your life and then eventually you'll have some entertaining stories to share! :)
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RHP User
11 years ago
Stolen from a website: "It’s like this: As a child you learned habits on love and happiness from your parents. If you learned that love comes with yelling and insults, then being in a relationship with too much peace and too many compliments might actually inspire anxiety. Snagging an abundance of joy might also trigger you to self-sabotage your happiness in order to maintain that “masochistic equilibrium” which you learned in your childhood. Or you might simply choose scenarios from the get-go which bring you lower levels of love and bliss.Basically, you grew up in your childhood learning to feel comfy with only a certain level of happiness. Maybe you grew up used to eighty percent happiness. Or only seventy-five percent. Or seventeen percent. When this concentration shifts—even if it’s upwards—you will then start to feel twitchy, because this new zone feels so unfamiliar. As a result you might instinctively want to do something self-sabotaging, so you can shift your happiness concentration back down, down, down, down, down to your familiar zone—your “masochistic equilibrium.” Or, as mentioned above, you might simply choose situations right from the start which bring you a familiar level of pain, so as to match the “masochistic equilibrium” you grew up with." As for me I use to think that I did this because of my first relationship. It was fairly one sided I was madly in love with her and to her I was basically her sex toy ( she was also quite a bit older and now days it would be considered statutory rape). But after the end of my most recent long term relationship I have realised it is because of my childhood. In my family you weren't allowed to shine or I wasn't lol. As I child was a confident and popular kid with everyone,girls ,guys and adults,I was attractive, good at sport, smart in school. But my brothers weren't.My older my brother had a learning disability and my younger brother was very shy and quiet. So I think my parents and extended family tried hard to make them feel more comfortable by praising them as much as possible while playing down any of my achievements all with good intentions I'm sure. I would then try harder to please to just get some attention. So on the outside I was this charismatic and confident kid that everyone liked and on the inside I was resentful and had major self esteem issues. Which brings me to my adult relationships. They tend to start out well but after awhile I'll start to have those feelings of inadequacy, so I try harder to please,put myself down with humour and of course that enables my partner until I eventually get so frustrated and angry I quit. Blame them for being unsatisfiable and uncaring to my needs. Hopefully now that I know these things I have finally learned something about myself and can change. Although some of my ex's were total narcissistic bitches but that's probably why I choose them lol
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RHP User
11 years ago
I think we quoted from the same website
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On_Safari
11 years ago
I didn't write this, I googled it!! But it was a good read so figured it'd help explain this "condition". Interesting topic Foxxy. xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'madotara69'Foxy, I have always thought of it like doors closed inside people, and anything that knocks on them is avoided very strongly.Through time and care, it is often what I have referred to as finding the best in people.And yes that stuff staying in peoples thoughts is toxic, until it has been released.But it is hard to explain, because there is a lot with it all. As there is some sort of energy that is part of it all and letting bad energy go, needs to be replaced with good energy.MadoYou knocking but you cant come in
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RHP User
11 years ago
I can see some forum members who do it! You always emulate what you know and feel comfortable with. Whether it be good or bad... I wouldn't think it's something unusual just a normal human trait.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Must say these forums are cheaper than a shrink!! As many will know I grew up surrounded by domestic violence and also as a child was always overweight. My 2 sisters and mother would constantly tease me and call me miss Piggy. This pushed me towards Anorexia. By the time I left highschool I weighed 47kg and went straight to working in pharmacy. This then lead me to abusing prescription diet pills such as Tenuate dospen back in the day. My weight then dropped to around 41kg. Life has thrown me many punches and even though I have overcome them I have never truly felt safe and secure. I have some wonderful friends in my life now but still find at times when I feel them wrapping me up and making me feel safe and secure, I start pushing them away Simply its not a feeling I'm familiar with. Even my marriage left me feeling this way due to his constant infidelities . You may read this and think I am an absolute nutter!! But I am just the same as everyone else.....only I'm brave enough to share it
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Promiscuous72
11 years ago
Love this topic thank you
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RHP User
11 years ago
How can you love ...if you have never experienced it?How can you trust.....if all you have known is betrayal?How can you be a better person?All you need to be, you already know.All you need to trust is yourself.All you need to love is you.The heart may be broken but it can be mendedAll the glue you need is you.
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RHP User
11 years ago
That is just too easy to say... But for some people impossible to do. When your trust has been violated by parents or adults when you are small... That is the deepest and ultimate betrayal and it alters the whole way you look at the world.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Your words never fail to touch my heart :) Thank you :) You're so beautiful - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
That kind of conditional love does alter a persons view of the world....but change IS possible. They have to consciously make a decision that something isn't working for them and that they want to change in order to work through these kind of issues. The unfortunate things is.....they often don't.....they inflict their pain on those around them and damage those them too. Those with a borderline personality disorder often don't get help even though all their personal relationships are in disarray. They often lack the insight that they are the common denominator.- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I may crave and miss walking along the road that is life, with someone, but by doing so alone, i know that any knife that is in my back, I put there myself. - Posted from rhpmobile
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On_Safari
11 years ago
And Meeks I guess it's up to the individual isn't it? Feelings of helplessness coupled to years or decades of conditioning, fear, abuse, pain and self-doubt can truly present insurmountable barriers battling within yourself let alone reinforced by external contributors!! At the end of the day do you believe you are worthy of more, TRULY worthy? Do you know in your heart of hearts that there IS more to you than others see? Because lets face it, without truly knowing yourself how can you ever really BELIEVE anything anyone else has to say about you? Self-reflection can lead to new discovery, open your mind and soul and amazing things can happen....but it isn't going to happen on it's own. It takes hard work and getting some brave on, with each small triumph another milestone is achieved and eventually everything else will fall into place. As the mantra says: "you are NOT your past actions. you are NOT your past failures. you are NOT how others have at one time treated you. you are ONLY who you think you are right now in this moment. you are ONLY what you do right now in this moment. So choose people, be all that you can be and more or continue to tear yourselves to pieces needlessly. I'm not sorry for choosing "LIFE" in all it's beauty and hard work. A garden doesn't plant itself!
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RHP User
11 years ago
Just words... They are easy to say aren't they, not so easy to put into practice. Sometimes all they can trust is themselves... And no one else.
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On_Safari
11 years ago
I believe we did.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Hmmm. interesting. I understand now. Seems like a debilitating thing to have to deal with. I would say my issues with commitment and rejection of marriage are stemmed from childhood experiences. But at the same time - I feel happy with the way I live in this aspect. Monogamy is too boring - and serious relationships are too serious.
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Tall74nHard9
11 years ago
A very interesting topic indeed, and well presented. Reading through I can see all the symptoms in my former wife, and having been married to her for a considerable period, I can relate to Meeka's frustrations about trying to resolve it. My former wife had somewhat 'stange' upbringing, and without going into personal details, I can see much of what has been written, in her behaviour. Indy, in your comments you put forward that there are ways to overcome the behaviours of the past, but you have to be willing to do such. And that is where the biggest problem lays. As the 'sufferers' of this condition have been brought up in such an environment and it has been firmly imprinted on them, they are only truly comfortable in recreating such an environment for themselves (and their families) ad infinitum. Breaking that cycle, from my own experience, is virtually impossible, because, as noted, that is their comfort environment. Why would they want to break from that ? The answer is, they don't. You can point out the obvious to them til your black n blue, but it will never change their perspective of life. Also not many people are successful in being able to use and practice the mantra of positive reinforcement, because again it places them outside of their own comfort zone. In my own circumstances, my former wife has 2 sisters and a brother who are all in the same boat, so the problem in amplified by the 'safety in numbers' principle. Sometimes, you just gotta let go. Tall
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RHP User
11 years ago
My father was abusive with a mental illness. Mum, me and my siblings suffered with him. Physical blows were far easier to overcome than emotional ones though. Neither my brother, sister or I have any children or intimate relationships. We're either at, past or nearing 30. Perhaps as a survival mechanism we each had our own ways of being emotionally self-sufficient. This makes it very hard to let people close. I get more perspective on it as I get older. I've noticed whenever I get closer to someone and hear words of love, I get this feeling like stairs giving way beneath my feet as I'm climbing them. I find I can't help but feel they don't mean it and it's all a lie. "Why would you love me? I'm not worthy of love. I can do without it anyway. Leave me alone. Go bullshit someone else" I've struggled with it over and over again. Also, both my parents were migrants, mother a refugee, and a psychologist friend thinks they and their descendants often don't have the same sense of entitlement to the nicer things in life. I'm doing my best to break the cycle. Childlike resilience is a better approach than cynical survival. But everyone has different circumstances. There's a great poem by Charles Bukowski that starts "there's a bluebird in my heart, that wants to get out, but I'm too tough for him..."
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RHP User
11 years ago
That those who have been in a relationship with a manipulative person - be it make or female - can also attest that positive experiences can be - and obviously not always - seen to be a mask for the negative. For example. Those in physically abusive relationships. The good times are simply a mask in my view to weaken ones guard, so that the abuser to feed in the negative. Over time, I'm sure it would have the victim then seeing every positive experience with a man or woman as a prelude to a right flogging. In which case they would simply switch to their survival mode at the recognition of the positive. My question is:- Given that most humans require to be in a particular mindset - I have no idea what it's called but a heightened agitated state won't facilitate - in order to absorb the positive, how then do you get that programming to change in a person my above example?? - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm self aware enough to know that I'm no good in a relationship. And I know exactly why it has been that way in the past. Slowly but surely I am reclaiming my body and I know it's something that I need to do for myself first, before I can really and deeply share it with someone else. Kaleidoscope touched on a disorder that used to be used to describe people like me. It's actually sad that it's still used. Nowdays it's called Chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and I'm happy to say that it is possible to recover and thrive from long term childhood trauma. It takes a while but it's possible. See, there's nuthin wrong with me ... *eyes twitches*Jay Jay xxx
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RHP User
11 years ago
it looks like my last post was written by Jay Jay. I was just giving you kisses at the end there ...
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RHP User
11 years ago
you are correct,but that is my experience...so not just words x R
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RHP User
11 years ago
When I was very small my father used to regularly beat and kick me,my mother was complicit in this abuse,she said and did nothing.Every Sunday night my mother and sisters would go to church leaving me alone with my father.....one of my earliest memories is of going to the kitchen drawer and taking out a large knife,to hide under my pillow.The abuse continued until I was sixteen when after my father slapped myface because I was wearing lipstick,I retaliated,hitting him back...he never touched me again and a few months later I ran away from home with my boyfriend.My parents if they loved me never told me so and I made bad choices in men.Ichose men who were emotionally distant....so I sought some help and refuge in Buddhism...for over twenty years I lived and worked in and around Buddhist communities both here and in the U.S.A...I decided that I could be a hostage to the past or I could use those experiences to make me stronger.Will I ever find love...romantic love?...I doubt it but what I do have is the love of family and friends...I enjoy my small life and count myself as a fortunate woman.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Freya77'How can you love ...if you have never experienced it? How can you trust.....if all you have known is betrayal? How can you be a better person? All you need to be, you already know. All you need to trust is yourself. All you need to love is you. The heart may be broken but it can be mended All the glue you need is you. In my experience, and from my observations, anyone can be anything. Some people overcome extraordinary adversity to live lives of peace and joy. Others wallow in their past or for whatever reasons just haven't found the strength to let it go and move on. If you ever need evidence of what you're capable of, just look around at what human beings have achieved - whether it's an emotional or psychological recovery, a physical feat or an intellectual success. In the end, we're all just human beings. Either way, the answer is always within. It may be that people need help to find it, but it remains true that the wisdom and peace is already there inside, waiting to be found. Love yourself. Trust yourself. Believe in yourself. And if you can't do those things for any reason, perhaps get some help until you can x
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RHP User
11 years ago
Big hugs for you JayJay. You are not a nutter, just try and use the past as a building block of positivity that has helped grow you into the lovely woman you are today and the future. Thank you for sharing, only strength can come from this :) SG.
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ruby_blossum
11 years ago
See it time and time again with posters in the forums.I doubt they ever realise it .The "woe is me" type of post..."such and such keeps happening to me...why are the people I meet so horrible to me."Usually everyone gangs up on the horrible person , occasionally some brave person will suggest to the op that they may actually be the cause of their ongoing problem.OP gets upset instead of taking a look at their own actions.Foxxy you have said in the past you are a fan of Dr Phil...one of his best lines is "So how is that working for you?"If the answer is - ITs not.Then do something about it to bring about change.Yes, there are many screwed up people on here, just like anywhere in the real world.Sadly here though, many are screwed up by many different versions of SEX somewhere in their past.And they think venturing into the adult world of www. is going to help??Just screws them up even more.It is possible to bring about change in your mindset, really its too easy, you just agree to let it go.Simple.But as humans we generally think if something is too simple then it musnt work.So men & women mull it over, ask their friends, seek professional help, ask strangers, overcomplicate things, post on forum threads looking for other to fix their problems.Many people can make the change in their outlook and their history....just as many cant , they will keep perpetuatingtheir mistakes screwing up their lives and those around them because change is scary for them.It is their identity they have lived their life with.Who will they be without the drama that has plagued their life?It takes a brave person to make that change to become all they can be.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Love to you. xx I have no experience in any of this, except to say I know how hard it is for some people to crawl out of. I have heard many stories through these forums and people I have spoken to via the forum and I have heard things that I can't even comprehend. Things that children have gone through..... I just can't even begin to imagine. I will shut up now. xxxx
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RHP User
11 years ago
Wow.....that's actually quite familiar- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'paint_me'it looks like my last post was written by Jay Jay. I was just giving you kisses at the end there ... Kisses happily accepted anytime
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'StSinner'My father was abusive with a mental illness. Mum, me and my siblings suffered with him. Physical blows were far easier to overcome than emotional ones though. Neither my brother, sister or I have any children or intimate relationships. We're either at, past or nearing 30. Perhaps as a survival mechanism we each had our own ways of being emotionally self-sufficient. This makes it very hard to let people close. I get more perspective on it as I get older. I've noticed whenever I get closer to someone and hear words of love, I get this feeling like stairs giving way beneath my feet as I'm climbing them. I find I can't help but feel they don't mean it and it's all a lie. "Why would you love me? I'm not worthy of love. I can do without it anyway. Leave me alone. Go bullshit someone else" I've struggled with it over and over again. Also, both my parents were migrants, mother a refugee, and a psychologist friend thinks they and their descendants often don't have the same sense of entitlement to the nicer things in life. I'm doing my best to break the cycle. Childlike resilience is a better approach than cynical survival. But everyone has different circumstances. There's a great poem by Charles Bukowski that starts "there's a bluebird in my heart, that wants to get out, but I'm too tough for him..." Why would you love me? I'm not worthy of love. I can do without it anyway. Leave me alone. Go bullshit someone else" I hear these words echo in my head when some one starts to get too close. But I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm letting it fuel me instead of burn me. With the help and patience of some beautiful friends So many Brave people here, thankyou for sharing :) Ok That's enough serious stuff from me for a while....
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm glad you understand it now.LOL we don't want to confuse you. xxFOXY
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RHP User
11 years ago
WOW!I didn't think this Topic would take off like it has.Thank you to those who have posted.Both Rubys I agree.What I really wanted to know was....sabotaging relationship and if anyone has done it?IMOE I do believe a lot of people do it, unintentionally of course because of fears.EXAMPLEI have a girlfriend who does sabotage, when she feels she is getting to close to someone she is intimate with.To her, it's not a case of having low self esteem, needy or anything like that, infact far from it.It's overwhelming for her to go outside her comfort zone she has put around her to feel safe.For her she was safe as a child, so as an adult she does not want to feel unsafe.She is not aware she sabotages until it is to late. :(Hope that makes sense.FOXY
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RHP User
11 years ago
a more beautiful Phoenix we have never seen.
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RHP User
11 years ago
You are right, once PTSD was lumped into the borderline personality disorder umbrella, these days we recognize that they are two different conditions with different symptoms, causes, treatments and outcomes.- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'paint_me' I'm self aware enough to know that I'm no good in a relationship. And I know exactly why it has been that way in the past. Slowly but surely I am reclaiming my body and I know it's something that I need to do for myself first, before I can really and deeply share it with someone else. That's my thoughts exactly too.I am no good either at relationships and I know that as well.HUGSFOXY xx
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On_Safari
11 years ago
I had written a lengthy response then decided against it. At the end of the day I am choosing to DO something about my pattern of behaviour. Everyone I've come into contact with in the last 2yrs predominantly has taught me something about myself and other people. Figuring where/what happened to start this pattern off, identifying triggers, finding ways to step back before reacting and looking at the bigger picture and ultimately choosing to deal with it all in a healthier mindset. Baby steps first. Had a girlfriend come over for coffee, another who loves psycho-analysing me because apparently my outer Indy that I put on show for everyone is so much less complex than my inner Indy. She just text me "Remember this. You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem and smarter than you think." Guess I am will eventually become "Hell yer I know right!"- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'SUPERFOXXY' I'm glad you understand it now.LOL we don't want to confuse you. xxFOXY Hahaha of course!But I must admit, these type of notions - I feel only have power, if they are given power.It can be labelled or thought about as much as the individual wants, but really... isn't everyone shaped in all aspects of life by how they were brought up and life experiences.A conscious awareness of what you want and what makes you happy should be enough.But then again - maybe years down the track my perspective on this will change.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Wouldn't counseling be a good idea? Or a support group?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sabatotaging a relationships is sometimes an unconscious behaviour...some people don't know they even do it...unless you knows himself, see triggers then one can control it and do something about it. FOXY
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sorry...my English is all Greek a bit. ;)
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RHP User
11 years ago
I would agree. Or..... As ruby blossom has said. Head down arse up, make a conscious decision to change your own subconscious. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'paint_me' I'm self aware enough to know that I'm no good in a relationship. And I know exactly why it has been that way in the past. Slowly but surely I am reclaiming my body and I know it's something that I need to do for myself first, before I can really and deeply share it with someone else. Kaleidoscope touched on a disorder that used to be used to describe people like me. It's actually sad that it's still used. Nowdays it's called Chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and I'm happy to say that it is possible to recover and thrive from long term childhood trauma. It takes a while but it's possible. See, there's nuthin wrong with me ... *eyes twitches*Jay Jay xxx I knew there was a push to change the name of this disorder, but didn't know it had now happened and what it was. I was diagnosed with it myself, about 5 years ago, after a few years of hell which started in my mid 20s. I didn't have a traumatic childhood, although I know there are certain issues with my parents that have contributed to my later problems. Now that I look back on it, I believe that I always had personality traits that made me more susceptible to mental illness (perfectionist, worrier, quite significant mood swings and impulsive behaviour particularly when it came to relationships; classic self-sabotaging behaviour). Then after a series of stressful events - yes related to men and sex, but not sexual assault or anything illegal as such - it was like my brain suddenly snapped literally in the space of a day. Thus began the rollercoaster ride from hell, which included a series of relationships that unsurprisingly almost always ended very badly.Things are certainly much better for me now, and I'm sure that's largely because I've purposely stayed out of relationships for a long time. I also have the advantage of being very self-aware about my problem behaviours; many with those types of disorders are not, as a few posters have already pointed out. I'm now much better at managing my emotions and not letting them get out of control, although I still have my moments. I'm not sure if I would still qualify for the former BPD diagnosis, and considering only one psychiatrist out of the many psychologists, GPs, and psychiatrists I saw was of the opinion I did, it's hard to say for sure if that was what I had. Psychiatric diagnoses are notoriously difficult, and many people - particularly females - exhibit a lot of the symptoms of BPD but don't qualify for diagnosis. In the end though it's not the label that matters, it's the person underneath it all who needs help to break through those ingrained behaviour patterns that are so devastating for both themselves and those near to them. My fear of fucking things up with friends and partners is still very much alive, and as a result I have closed myself off a fair bit from people over the last few years, although I'm gradually trying to address that (things are also complicated by the fact that I still suffer from depression and anxiety, to varying degrees). I think I'm still a way off another relationship though, and besides, there is a lot more I want to explore before entering into another partnership.
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Tall74nHard9
11 years ago
I'm glad that you have been able to recognize that there was a need for change. Once you know that you're half way there. There is one sure-fire way to gradually overcome the self-destructing patterns, but it takes time. It's called ageing - which normally brings more wisdom than you have at any younger age, and gives you a much clearer perspective on life from which to view past events. You understand much more - you've lived, you've loved, you've learned, and you've learned to be more critical of yourself with regards to proper analysis of prior situations. You are no longer in a hurry to try and resolve things - you actually are prepared to spend the necessary time to get the results you want to achieve. The old saying of "you can't put an old head on young shoulders" does ring very true, and I can only tell most of you life experience will teach you much - it's something you can't study or rush. But as mentioned in my previous writing here, the person concerned has to 1) recognize they do indeed need to get out of their ways, and 2) be willing to do something about it. Because they recognize their current circumstances as a comfort zone, neither point may make any sense to them. On a more personal level, particularly to the girls who have been brave enough to discuss their personal issues in this forum, I would say I would love to give you all a big and loving hug. Tall
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RHP User
11 years ago
As Doctor Phil says, thanks to Ruby again, " how's that working for you?" I don't know, I just think talking about it to professionals or going to a support group would really be beneficial. Trying to fix things yourself isn't always the best way especially as it's hard to self diagnose yourself when you are stuck in the middle of it all. Like I say.. You don't have to do it yourself you know.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I get what you're saying, that there's no use suffering in silence, however, I also believe that Rome wasn't built in a day. That without a little rain, there can be no rainbow. But I also think that true change must come from within. So the first step of that change, should be - I feel - me being able to recognise when the fan is about to be covered in shit. By observing oneself you have the ability to have done some of the work for the professional. Saving me money, and saving their tissue boxes :)- Posted from rhpmobile
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TimidButCurious
11 years ago
Thank you Foxy for posting this, I had never heard of Masochistic Equilibrium. Thanks too to everyone who has shared their stories and insights, I’ve found all the comments interesting and helpful. I also self-sabotage and I have issues I need to work on that I’ve been putting off because I haven’t wanted to deal with. This post has moved me to action.Timid x
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RHP User
11 years ago
*HUGS*FOXY xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
I have been on the receiving end when someone has sabotaged a relationship.I've gone WTF just happened and it was not till afterwards I've gone..ahhhh so they sabotaged because of their own fears.It's heartbreaking at that time. :(Time has passed and it's too late to do anything as we have moved on. FOXY
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RHP User
11 years ago
xxx You are a brave fighter gorgeous.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I understand subconscious behavior. It is my belief with awareness you can always filter the subconscious through the concious. I think this is a skill not everyone has.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Thanks for the compassion Meeka. But me and Sir Lurk are too tough for dat shit.(tears flow inside)I'm skeptical about counseling, my old-man, apparently, went to anger management. I don't think that helped him. Or anyone else.We're both guilty of self-sabotage but I'm definitely not self-destructive. Sir Lurk, do you have any tendencies toward that? Dealing with this stuff takes a lot of effort and can be draining at times, especially because I'm a go with the moment type of person. Questioning your impulses can be very confusing. Very disruptive. I'm lucky I've got good outlets to confront my demons. Both physically and mentally. Productive introspection. A long lost art.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I have my moments as people on here have seen and even experienced where my mind, and sometimes it feels like my soul is just on fire. I have been very close to physical harm a few times when it's been pretty unbearable. But I have 3 kids that I enjoy spending time with and that really does soothe the inner beast. I've also taken some advice from the lovely Freya who suggested listening to Mozart. THAT has been one of the best things. I have used counselling in the past as well, but, the thing to remember is that you may need to see 10-12 counsellors before you find the one that works for you. Bloody painful going through the same crap a dozen times, but when you find one that works it's a really positive thing. That said, I've had some really great conversations with people on here too that have helped immensely. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
That from my experience. I've also found it to be a very vicious cycle that doesn't just affect the relationship, but your self confidence, self esteem as well. If I get to feeling strongly about someone, I tend to just walk. A few days later you are kicking the shit of yourself for doing it. You know you have to change, but then you think, "you know what?? If they were THAT into you, they'd fight for you." Which let's face it; it will never happen. I mean why should they?? It's not their mess it's ours. You become closed off, and start deflecting every emotional conversation, your feelings, in a very negative self depracating fashion. But then you wake up, asking yourself why you're alone on such a gorgeous day....then you remember. You remember just how ugly you truly are on the inside. Who would sign up for that?? You go out to a pub, and I can only speak for me, but you sit down in an isolated corner, having a few bevvies trying to hide away your own perceived "ugliness" and you watch. You watch life pass you by, while there are those that are less ugly indulge in the flavours of fun, happiness, that you know in you're own mind are capable of enjoying but your mind is held captive. "Why don't they notice me?" Is a question I've asked. "Because you know that they're just fake smiles, fake interest, etc" Jesus Christ, I sound paranoid schizophrenic lol..... So.....nice weather eh?? :p- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Thank you for sharing.For you to open up I give you credit..it's not an easy thing to do.I am overwhelmed that this Topic has taken off like this.I think it is an important Topic to discussed.I'm pretty sure there is a lot of people here, who can relate to what you are going through and understand.Please don't feel alone.MWAHHHFOXY xxx
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RHP User
11 years ago
I know what you mean Sir Lurk. It's double edged. Struggling and fighting against feelings of no self-worth sometimes gives me an exaggerated, maybe false, confidence. I've noticed in my poor treatment of some very good women I've had relationships with. I found I'd put them on pedestals and make saints out of them for taking pity on me and giving me love. Then if they then naturally couldn't continue to live up to those stupid expectations I'd put over them (we're only human after all) I'd resent them deeply for it. It seemed to be a perpetual cycle. Comes from conditioning. Continuing to raise the bar to deliberately willfully fail. Then bask and brood in the insular cocoon of self-loathing. It's not just a guy thing to. My sister does this to ridiculous extremes. We're a dramatic family. Operatic!!I'm maturing a little these days, and because most of the ladies I saw were older, they were patient with me and I've found that talking to them, especially after the relationship, has been huge in developing a more positive behaviour.Sheeit, this weather friggin great! (in Melbourne) Thanks Opra....I mean superfoxxy. Left ourselves open here, you could have done anything to us. Thanks for the kind words.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Knock yourself out
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RHP User
11 years ago
The shooting oneself in the foot process is real, and it is often hard to see.I have blown up fantastic careers, wonderful relationships, financial opportunity, love and friendships almost as though I am on autopilot. And I didn't know I was doing it. It still happens. I freeze before I can take the risk of making an approach on rhp to someone who, after all, expects approaches and is cool about rejecting them.And I know that I don't like myself at all. Not at all. But I also know that this syndrome, like depression, anxiety, drug and alchohol addiction, is something that people create. And if we create it, we can create something else instead.The start is often professional help. Sometimes it involves forgiving oneself enough to try some new steps. Sometimes it involves recognising that, just like a broken leg or high blood pressure, psychological and emotional injuries can be carried along; the more you tolerate them and keep moving the stronger the muscles get and the more chance you have of at least contentment, if not happiness.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Welcome to the nuthouse :) I'm the president/founder by the way :p- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
The ladies have gone quiet..... I dunno if that's a good thing ;) - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Get help.... What have you got to loose after all? I don't understand why you struggle with it alone. I am obviously no expert but I would hate for you to wake up in 10 or 20 years time, still alone and think if only... xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
By the way St Sinner.....any sex appeal we had prior to spewing all this out.....we just lost lol :p- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'kingoftheroad' The start is often professional help. Sometimes it involves forgiving oneself enough to try some new steps. Sometimes it involves recognising that, just like a broken leg or high blood pressure, psychological and emotional injuries can be carried along; the more you tolerate them and keep moving the stronger the muscles get and the more chance you have of at least contentment, if not happiness. Yes....so true.
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RHP User
11 years ago
and WE like you...you are erudite ,witty and compassionate ....wots not two like...au contraire Sir Lurkie....please see Unrushed's Man thread re vulnerability....and is this not what most women asking of men?To let us see your vulnerability and humaness?Those that don't are not worth bothering about....phtttt to the strong silent archetype.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I see your point re:vulnerability. But honestly, no one would sign themselves up to someone that comes across as a weirdo. :) Which I wear that badge with pride :)- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sirlurk...you of all people are not a weirdo.Yours SincerelyHAZEL XXX
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'sirlurkalot'I see your point re:vulnerability. But honestly, no one would sign themselves up to someone that comes across as a weirdo. :) Which I wear that badge with pride :)- Posted from rhpmobile Not about whether or not you're a weirdo hehe... but there are people with a self-esteem so low, they will accept anyone and any behaviour from them to feel loved. It's sad but true.
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RHP User
11 years ago
The way I sees it. To knowingly sign up for something with a short expiry date would be stupid- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's just that I trust I can speak with you... and I've seen, heard and experienced so much in my life. People really are complicated creatures who do the most incredible, amazing things for who knows why. We all have their reasons though.
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RHP User
11 years ago
....- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I have been following this conversation with great interest, initially with some trepidation because I get a little wary of the labels and diagnoses and psychobabble that are bantered around. As always I am touched by the very personal experiences that people share. SirLurk, StSinner, Indagine, Freya, KingoftheRoad, Peachy, thank you all for your courage and your openness and your trust. I always feel privileged to be trusted with the deep and painful stories of people's lives. I know the self sabotage cycle well and like others, the person I sabotage is myself. I do wonder where it comes from now as I have done quite a lot of personal development, had counselling, and would say, on most days, my self esteem is high. I have developed my own strategy for dealing with the voices from the past who gave me negative messages about myself yet there are a couple of situations where I still self sabotage. Stopping smoking is one. As for relationships, its not an issue for me at the moment because I am so very uncompromising about what I am looking for that no-one has come close to touching my heart in a while. And I'm not being uncompromising out of defensiveness, but because I finally know my true worth. I once was someone who ended up in wrong relationships because I was desperate to be loved. So we can and do change our patterns of behaviour.
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RHP User
11 years ago
besides... talking about you, the right person/people will see the real you.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm not referring to a relationship though just to clarify. I'm talking about DG's attraction. They do t normally get that close miss peachy just sayin- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I think many people do it, but are scared to admit to it...least of all on an open forum for fear of ridicule or whatever.Mine stems from many things I suppose. Bad experiences in my teens and 20's with men. Not a happy home life growing up. Other difficulties. Loosing my husband has been pretty hard and has paled all of those prior things into insignificance. I tend to think more often than not I'm a good person. However if I'm fraught about something my self destruct button can start flashing at me. Its something though that I recognise and I try my very hardest to not do it. Its not fair on me ultimately doing it and the one important person in your life.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sorry SirLurk, I didn't read far enough back. :-D . If I could get close enough, I'd give you a big hug! Haha, just sayin'. :-x
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'sirlurkalot' I see your point re:vulnerability. But honestly, no one would sign themselves up to someone that comes across as a weirdo. :) Which I wear that badge with pride :)- Posted from rhpmobile I just find your comment........ well just not right. Why should you be proud of it... unless you use it as a way to alienate people?
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RHP User
11 years ago
.....- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
and living with me on top of a mountain in Buddhist Centre amongst the sequoia, in the Santa Cruz Mountains ;the biggest insult that my daughter could come up with was '''Well YOU would like to be weird but you're NOT''It's all about perception...one person's weird is another's quirky....who afteral would want to be labelled normal?...now that is a different weird. xR
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RHP User
11 years ago
I know that sex appeal is tied up in someone's present and not their past. We all have baggage and some of us choose to carry it lightly and gracefully. Discussing the past in order to help and to reach out to others is not unsexy. It takes a big person to be open in such a humble and understated way.
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RHP User
11 years ago
But I will retract the we and replace I - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Family constellations therapy or theory covers this well.. What we experience in childhoo (0-7 yrs) plays out in our adulthood unless we get our shit sorted... bottom line... those that are afraid of intimacy.. hmmm... have some issues :)
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RHP User
11 years ago
And thank you, in turn, for your bravery and your gracious remarks.If I could throw something small in the air, sometimes we can self-sabotage in a good way.Giving up smoking is an example. I had a two pack a day habit for years; I could even smoke in the shower! (You hold the arm with the cigarette out of the water flow and poke your head out for a puff whenever you want one. Blokes in their 20s are pretty stupid, if you haven't noticed.)And I would declare and promise and affirm that I would definitely give up at 9AM and throw all my smokes out and, of course, would last half an hour and thus prove to myself how useless I was.Then I decided to lie to myself. I carried a pack at all times, so the desperation wasn't sitting on me. I would say to myself 'if you really want one, you can have one in 5 minutes' and often after the five minutes I would have lost the craving. If I lasted half an hour I would treat that as a victory, pat myself on the back, have a bourbon. And the desperation had less to feed on, and I had less reason to dump on myself, and bugger me dead but I have not now had a smoke for 30 years. Of course, there were lapses to start with, but again I counted not the lapse but the smoke free days.My point is that sometimes we have to sneak up on ourselves to help ourselves. And my bigger point is that there is a way through, or around, or over, or under, all the shit we create for ourselves.Thanks again for your bravery and your kind words.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Bofa, if you read this, I love you, I will always love you, I want you to be at peace with yourself, you deserve better than you allow yourself. Hp xo 💌 Thank you foxxy, indigine, gavmac and jay, xo
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RHP User
11 years ago
I just saw an amazing TED talk on the Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown. Google it. It's so worth watching. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Awesome71'I just saw an amazing TED talk on the Power of Vulnerability by Brene Brown. Google it. It's so worth watching. - Posted from rhpmobile I've watched that clip a few times, it was sent to me by a fellow RHPer. How appropriate! Thank you again to them! I hope you look it up SirLurk! xXx
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RHP User
11 years ago
Just realized that talk was mentioned on the support of men forum too. I saw it on Facebook just recently in a TED post on how to change your life for the better.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I haven't read that thread, and it was sent to me on facebook. I've found the fb page now, thanks. :-)
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RHP User
11 years ago
ahem
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's M.E
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RHP User
11 years ago
Back in March. It changed the quality of ALL my relationships. Instantly.- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Who would have guessed a site dedicated to the pursuit of hedonistic pleasures would yield such amazing, compassionate, insightful & supportive dialogue. Glad I am here. Brene Brown & The Power of Vulnerability might suit people who are not inclined to seek counselling, as it is presenting a framework for appreciating your vulnerability, presents a shift of attitude that gives that part of us validity, context and value. Heal for Life Foundation runs many centres in Aus & NZ that focus on Inner Child work as a different approach, and has an amazing rural retreat in the Hunter Valley called Mayumarri worth spending a week up there to wrap your head around the effects of childhood abuse. It's a surprisingly hopeful place with a motto "If you can feel, you can heal". Highly recommended. FunlovingNoodles, I have taken part in Family Constellations work once before, but haven't come across it since. I would be interested in hearing more about it. Inbox me if anyone would like more info. Hugs to all.
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him_and_me
11 years ago
Quoting 'Awesome71'Discussing the past in order to help and to reach out to others is not unsexy. It takes a big person to be open in such a humble and understated way. I am inclined to agree. x Me
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RHP User
11 years ago
Brene Brown's TED vulnerability video.WOW!I just watched it...I loved it!Thanks for sharing that.FOXY
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On_Safari
11 years ago
Forgive me if I'm wrong but Lady Weirdo wishes to speak (since as Freya says who in their right mind wants to be "normal"). Sitlurk & StSin you both are deserving of far more than you realise or let yourselves be open to having. You both wear your pain/distrust as a shield to protect yourselves, may I say let it go and get crazy alongside me? Errr lol, ummm not like THAT but forgive and test yourselves by doing something/letting some lovely lady into your lives and throwing caution to the wind per se. KingoftheRoad, oh how well I can relate to the TORPEDOING of a successful career and life!!! Glad you gave up smoking.....but more glad to see you are now smoking hot!!! Thanks to all who opened thrmselves up so completely to discuss this topic. Paintme I'm so glad you pointed out the relationship with PTSD which I was diagnosed with some years ago. Thankfully I can recognise and apply some of what I am learning and through the support and love of those around me and yes, loving myself everything does look pretty rosy. I mean let's face it; what's not to love right? Lol Sirlurk and Sin you love yourselves too, try it; it's kinda kinky!! Haha- Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I did that just recently did that....lol her response was "have you been drinking?" Not exactly a positive when you take a leap of faith, and it's assumed you're enebriated. It only reinforces the belief that saying nothing, and walking away was a better option than to make a complete fuckhead of myself. Granted, one woman's response doesn't entirely speak on the behalf of every woman, but it makes you think twice as much about wanting to do it again.- Posted from rhpmobile
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On_Safari
11 years ago
Isn't this where we all say "NEXT!!"- Posted from rhpmobile
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