M40
The coward punch phenomenon, and how to change/stop it.
January 14 2014
Comments
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Mischeviouslad
11 years ago
Road rage, shopping rage, cowards punch...... why do we need to label aggressive and bad behaviour? It's all assault, and it's all antisocial so establishing the reasons for antisocial and aggressive behaviour in all firms would seem to be the logical approach to me. Drugs, alcohol and challenged upbringing should not be excused as a mitigating circumstance to diminish bad behaviour. DG - Posted from rhpmobile
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Coops27M
11 years ago
Personally i cannot stand it when they constantly refer to them as 'King hits'...
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RHP User
11 years ago
I think part of the problem is the kind of things we teach our kids that are considered a rite of passage. The social acceptance of excessive drinking and recreational drug use. The fact that a lot of parents teach their kids to "never back down" from a confrontation. That there aren't enough police in the areas near licensed venues, pubs and clubs employ the bare minimum of security staff to satisfy liquor licensing regs. The blatant disregard for responsible service of alcohol in pursuit of greater profits. The perception that it is macho to fight. That's just a start
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RHP User
11 years ago
So because i fight in mma fights and i knock people out 1 punch. Am i labeled the same as them, after all a fights a fight is'nt it. No??????? there is a difference between two people going toe to toe, and someone who dog shots someone who's that drunk they cant even stand.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Very simply, that I think they're heading the right direction simply by changing the name in the media, to describe the crime from a king hit to a coward's punch. It was an idea introduced by the parents of one of the victims. The different name immediately gives me a different impression of the coward committing the crime.
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RHP User
11 years ago
... simple. Visit the tiny buddha site and search for a post called "How to be hurt less by so-called evil people". Interesting reading ;) Living from a place of love, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness actually takes quite a bit of effort for most people. Eventually it might become much easier, after practice, but at first it typically requires significant conscious commitment. It means: Not blaming others for how you feel but accepting that your feelings are a result of your own thoughts and interpretations. Change those, change how you feel. Doubt me? Do the research :) Not judging others for thinking and acting differently than you. Accepting difference and accepting that you're not better than anyone else. Not anyone.Not ever. Regardless of how horrific their actions are, you're not better than them. At best you've made better choices in your life ... to date (never underestimate what humans might do in extreme circumstances). They are human, you are human, the end. Understanding that most people do the best they can and make the best decision they can with what they've got at the time. It's not about excusing them, it's about not adding to the hostility in the world by how you react to them. Choosing to respond to the world thoughtfully, rather than react to it instinctively. Our 'instincts' are more often than not just social and psychological conditioning to interpret situations and react to them in particular ways. Stop that. Think. Choose a response that embodies love, tolerance, compassion and forgiveness. Accepting that life is not all roses and bad things happen. There's no known point in history, and no known living species, where only good happens. Bad happens. Sometimes there's no explanation for it (aside from the view which I hold dear, that there's actually no right or wrong or good or bad - there just is). If you accept bad happens you can focus on how to reduce or minimise it, rather than how to avenge it. Avenging something usually adds more bad to the world. IMHO assault, among all the other horrors, is a result of people not doing the above. And of others not doing the above in response to them. And so the cycle continues.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'cnsfelswat' So because i fight in mma fights and i knock people out 1 punch. Am i labeled the same as them, after all a fights a fight is'nt it. No??????? there is a difference between two people going toe to toe, and someone who dog shots someone who's that drunk they cant even stand. that's why if you were to fight on the streets, you are considered a weapon to add with charges. Law alone will see you receiving the higher end of the punishment, you will lose your fighting rights. The fact you could probably better control the damage inflicted (self defence) can and does put you into a different frame of mind considering and to consequences. Can't really fit into the label of the type suggested. Mado Tara xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
My impression of a "king hit" before all the recent media was hitting someone from behind. That's a terrible thing, no chance to see it coming and defend it. Now I think the term has been misused and misrepresented in the media. There is definitely a massive difference between 2 people going toe to toe and a drunken blindside. The thing is, there are 1000's of pathetic drrunken fights every weekend and they all have the potential to be fatal. Usually not because of the force of the punches but because the person getting hit might well bang their head on the concrete. A large percentage of those go unreported unless someone is actually hurt
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RHP User
11 years ago
A very weak act ! You want to hit someone go and fight in the ring and see how well you go. And on another topic did you guys see the dolphin swimming down at cobblers beach with all those people nakkie in the water?I was going for the dolphin to bite a.... errr sardine!
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Chillymofo
11 years ago
The first step is to re label as a cowards punch Bigger and better - rename the charge for what it is - Attempted Murder or MurderDont fuck around in the courts with a wrist slapIf the Queensland Government can throw bikers in the bighouse for wearing a club jacket, or associating with one another - surely the same can be done for dog punchers.Mandatory term is needed.and no bloody excuses - No -"I was drunk and not in control" no shit Einstein THROW THE BOOK AT THEM
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Smilingwithfun
11 years ago
The moment its given a name, to a degree its accepted as happening. Good that the Newcastle Knights forward was given 2 years. Well done to the club for the way they have handled it. Yeah those that do it should be charged with at least attempted Manslaughter. Though here in Qld, Terry O'Gorman would run around crying State brutality.
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wingman2014
11 years ago
My nephew was attacked the same way on NYE in Sydney . Fractured eye socket, broken nose , spent the night in St Vincent's . I good friend of mine is a cop in Sydney's west and told me it happens every day , it's got a lot to do with gang initiation . Some one videos the coward punching an unsuspecting victim to show they are worthy of being part of the gang .... Just pathetic - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I agree coops27M as a 'King Hit' would see the head go past 20-30 degrees from straight ahead (either way), and the hit would push the head through 45 degrees - 65 degrees (the way the opponents head is already turning anyway) and "Lights Out" as the carotid vein gets over stretched... Not dangerous as it happens in boxing all the time. .Temple pokes, ear drum bursting (Hand cupping), Deception whacks, throat punching and gouging are all dirty moves done by so many as an advantage ploy in the agro. Step back and use peripheral vision these days, some chick is likely to throw a glass/bottle as well just to be in the action.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Could be called the ninja punch much like the ninja fuck right? :p - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
There needs to be severe penalties to those who choose to fight/pick on people in the public for no reason, being drunk or on drugs is no excuse in fact they knowingly get drunk(some of them) for Dutch courage. Those that do Cage fighting should especially be penalised and banned from doing the sport, let them play in the big cages at Prisons there are plenty to fight there. They should pick on someone their own size or fight experience, there is no challenge in fighting innocent victims in public, they should leave it in the ring, it is a specialised sport, so how challenging is it to fight someone with no experience.
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RHP User
11 years ago
A human being is not a weapon, no matter their training. To the OP - it will not change until the courts get some serious sentencing in place. When you can commit serious crime and get nothing more than a community bond and suspended sentence, where's the motivation to clean up your behavior?
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RHP User
11 years ago
A) Bring back the cane in schools. B) More male role models.C) National Service or boot camps.D) Respect for your fellow man (not sure how you teach that).E) Consequences from actions. Pusscat xxx
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RHP User
11 years ago
The courts can't unfortunately decide the punishment based upon the English common law system. This unfortunately is based upon precedence. Therefore, a sentence given out in today's world can't exceed that of similar circumstance. This rendering the hands of the courts tied. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I disagree with the cane, I'm glad that the cane was gone by the time I hit school. The way I was brought up, I was taught to let someone take a swing at me, then hit them back twice as hard so they never tried again, no matter who it was. Terrible parenting, but I was never a bully, nor was I ever seriously bullied so in a messed up way it kind of worked. Nobody has a right to lay a hand/cane on my child. I'm not against a smack on the hand or bum from a parent in certain circumstances but that's it. Using a physical act as an attempt to control teaches a child that it is ok to lash out when you get frustrated or angry. It's like yelling at a child telling them to be quiet, doesn't work and doesn't make sense.
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RHP User
11 years ago
In the instance of the so called wannabe cage fighter, it's not yet known how much training the guy actually had. After 1 fight lesson the media can say- "he's an aspiring fighter" and the societal perception is that he's been training for years. There was a case in Melbourne in the late 80's or early 90's where a guy by the name of Sean Vincent/Lewis Caine killed a guy at a nightclub, he was touted as a martial arts expert who killed a man in a frenzied attack- in reality, he was barely a novice, who threw 3 punches and unfortunately killed a man. The point is, reality and perception are two very different things.
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RHP User
11 years ago
King hitting for validation in gangs . ? What ? These guys are the absolute scum of the earth. Call them snake guts because thats about as low as you can get. The thing that worry's me is the mindset of these pricks. How weak minded are these bludgers to want to carry out these unexpected attacks on some poor bugger minding his own business.. ? As far as Im concerned ' it's attempted murder and should carry maximum punishment full stop... Dont dilly dally around, give them 20 years non parole and more if the the victim dies. Get the message out there that they will do lengthy time for violating another person life. If the law knows they did the crime, skip the lawyers and the defence, they dont deserve it anyway. just put them away.. Im over being told its where these pricks lived and the way parents bashed them when they were young ? We owe them nothing.. fight fire with fire.. give them back what they deserve.. Im fed up...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Not everyone can be, or act civil in a "civilised" society. And what is a civilised society anyway. In this case we are talking about behaviour that is not acceptable to the majority. Then there is the civil / common law dilemma when those come before the courts. Anarchy before sanity. Some say sanity will prevail, history has shown us that anarchy will reign supreme. /rant
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RHP User
11 years ago
basically thinking along the same lines
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RHP User
11 years ago
When the result is either a plea of guilty or finding of guilt, it is still up to the court to sentence. And when a specific crime holds a maximum penalty of (say 10 penalty units), that penalty is rarely handed out. Soft instead of maximum penalty. The appeal will always go up under the precedence (because that's the soft penalty), but the sentence can be maximum penalty under whatever Act the charges have been laid. Most of your common law offences are summary, they don't hold heavy penalties.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I get where you're coming from, and I agree each case should be sentenced based upon it's own merit. However plea bargaining, reduces sentences. Pleas of guilty are also reduce sentences. Remorse(however fake or disingenuous it maybe) can also help to reduce time given. I'm pretty sure, but will endeavour to find out for sure though, that magistrates can't sentence outside the precedent set.....even if they felt personally that they deserved much more time. What I definitely though, is I wouldn't have their job for quids... :) - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
When people commit acts of violence, destruction and mayhem, they should not necessarily be imprisoned, but made to work hard and long to pay financially for the hurt and destruction caused, then do the time, hard. I also believe that the parents of young offenders should have to pay for the damage and hurt their children do. Only when offspring are reared with a sense of community spirit, respect for others and their belongings, compassion for fellow human beings will order ensue. One other thing thing I firmly believe, stop kids watching all form of violence, war, gun fighting on television, even in cartoons, and they may grow up wanting to hurt other people less. At the least, teach them that hitting people in reality hurts, and has consequences.
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RHP User
11 years ago
your a dissembler, not making much sense there. You say what you were taught is good, however don't teach children the same that you espouse was good in your upbringing. If your out with your mates, do you pull them up and say, hey mate, pull your effing head in? Do or have they said that to you? Can you remember if you have or they have? Are you a model citizen? What is a model citizen? As in any line of questioning any statement can be turned around to suit either party. As far as cage fighting etc goes. You know what lives in cages. you don't have to be an expert to kill / maim someone with one punch, more often than not it is the second hit that does the most damage, that's when they are out of it hitting the ground. And when it comes down to it if your laying the law down to a miscreant, before the knockout blow you let them know why they are getting knocked out, then they remember. No good laying them out and them not knowing why they were getting tuned up. That's heavy 101. I'm a tad old school though, came in just at the end of the fee reign period. Like lay the size 12 in with permission. There used to be some respect, not just for the law, but for the community. I sort of know where your coming from and appreciate your enthusiasm. Having been at the coalface I am pleased there is a lot more truth in reporting today, as opposed to the cover ups of the past. It's nothing new, just a bit more widespread, more people about, more venues for people to attend and get more out of control. I have been your age, you may get to mine. Some who are more learned, and a lot more educated than myself lay the blame at the apathy of the later baby boomers, Gen X, and the affluence of Gen Y. Some say the proliferation of violent gaming etc. It's a bit like that silly dog chasing it's tail, however a well trained dog does what it is told, even when it is out of control.
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's not a new thing but it's happening more frequently, why? What is driving it? Is it steroids? Drugs? Alcohol? A social issue? Changing the name to Cowards punch may prove to be the single most effective thing to deter guys from doing it if their motivation is to elavate their social status through this type of behaviour. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I believe a lot of it omes down to boredome, to many restrictions on outdoor activities 4 example. These days if you want to go camping your not just aloud to go anywere cause its illegal plus if u go to camp sites there's restrictions on noise music excetera, if you wanna go fishing crabbing excetera u have to pay for licences and a lot of it is just gettin to expensive and no one can afford it or Is willing to pay to do those types of activities witch are what australia is ronoun 4. the list goes on. Everywere is gettin to Densly populated. Facebook. So many reasons on y this happens. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I'm not sure where you get dissembler and heavy 101 from, it seems that you're trying to portray me as some kind of violent bully hidden behind a half decent facade. I could be wrong and maybe I'm misinterpreting your words. The comment about my upbringing- if you care to re-read it meant that although those lessons worked for me, I don't necessarily agree with it. It's not uncommon to see the value in a lesson, yet disagree with how the lesson was conveyed. As for my friends, I definately used to pull them up if they were acting like idiots, and believe it or not i was always in control of my own actions so it was very rare that i needed telling off. In all honesty I have walked away from 90% of my friends, I chose to distance myself due to a number of factors. The major one being my daughter.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'Stir_it_alot' I get where you're coming from, and I agree each case should be sentenced based upon it's own merit. However plea bargaining, reduces sentences. Pleas of guilty are also reduce sentences. Remorse(however fake or disingenuous it maybe) can also help to reduce time given. I'm pretty sure, but will endeavour to find out for sure though, that magistrates can't sentence outside the precedent set.....even if they felt personally that they deserved much more time. What I definitely though, is I wouldn't have their job for quids... :) - Posted from rhpmobile The maximum sentence a Magistrate can convict too, is Two years. the independent judges can do what they see fitting. There is a reason for it, they don't have lunch with the local Joes. So it has been said. Don't know much more to it though. Anything serious goes up to the scrutiny of district courts and all to the circumstances. Some kids, make terrible mistakes, boys fight. Figuring out all that is a serious matter to determine. Footy players a while back punched each other in the head, on national TV. Some kids see it as all inspirational, don't see death to it. Mado Mado Tara xx
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'Jay_Me' King hitting for validation in gangs . ? What ? These guys are the absolute scum of the earth. Call them snake guts because thats about as low as you can get. The thing that worry's me is the mindset of these pricks. How weak minded are these bludgers to want to carry out these unexpected attacks on some poor bugger minding his own business.. ? As far as Im concerned ' it's attempted murder and should carry maximum punishment full stop... Dont dilly dally around, give them 20 years non parole and more if the the victim dies. Get the message out there that they will do lengthy time for violating another person life. If the law knows they did the crime, skip the lawyers and the defence, they dont deserve it anyway. just put them away.. Im over being told its where these pricks lived and the way parents bashed them when they were young ? We owe them nothing.. fight fire with fire.. give them back what they deserve.. Im fed up... I feel you are giving bullshit a bad name. Opinions vary I understand. Respect doesn't. Mado
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RHP User
11 years ago
That whole "hit back twice as hard" thing was how I was brought up, not how I view things now. Once I got to 14-15yo I was living out of home and challenged all the bs from my childhood and decided that being able to talk your way out of trouble is far better than having to fight your way out. The talking out of trouble stands me in good stead within my industry and I'm highly respected by clients, employers and work associates so I must be doing something right.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Is firmly rooted in our Australian psyche.We celebrate thuggery in film and television. Turn murderers and thieves into National heroes.....Chopper Reid,Mick Gatto,the Morans, Carl Williams ,Roger Rogerson et al. These men even tour the country and people pay to see them celebrate their lives of crime. So why be surprised when young men become violent thugs?
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RHP User
11 years ago
I cant believe you. The only bullshit is turning a blind eye... Have you ever been bashed for no reason ? Probably not. Ask the victims that have if its bullshit.. ?
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RHP User
11 years ago
In Singapore' they have deterrents such as the lash and their crime stats are the lowest in the world.. ? I wonder why. ? If we continue on with our legal system the way it is ' nothing will change '.. Innocent people will be smashed possibly killed and the offender tucked away in jail ' IF they catch him .? If these cretins knew the penalty was greater than the glory of their coward punch. Im sure they would pull their head in quick smart.. Only do gooders will see this differently.. but in reality, if you dont do the crime, you dont have anything to worry about..
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'Jay_Me' I cant believe you. The only bullshit is turning a blind eye... Have you ever been bashed for no reason ? Probably not. Ask the victims that have if its bullshit.. ? Just the suggestion that these kids don't deserve to have rights, and you owe them nothing. From you EX football player, still involved with the game Kids, I guess. Half if not most of these kids going around throwing their fists out, Think blokes like you are hero's. When this came up in the footy show, did you see anyone of those boys carry on like you in that last post. No they talked of educating the kids. At least half the punches during footy games on TV are cheap shots, then the rest of the boys run in and get into things, Sure big boys game bring back the biff. Back in your day, you were one of these gangs, boys in your gang belted blokes just doing their thing, if they got in the way or even a bit cheeky. Call it sport, doesn't change the fact that kids looked up to the men, Most blokes I know that punch on with who ever, are all footy supporters, that get pissed up and become their favourite front rower. These are your kids, some of them and you owe them nothing. Who is turning the blind eye?
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RHP User
11 years ago
What a load of utter BS... I was half thinking you may have some insecurities but after that rant I'm sure.. Putting your head in the sand only makes you part of the problem, not the solution... Before you lose your way completely... let's get something straight. I've always been one to put out and help anyone who came from hard knocks, and when I seen THEM putting in the hard yards , it makes me go harder . In some cases some have gone onto bigger and better things , but that's not what you want to hear. You my misguided friend are surmising and poking holes in fresh air. I support those who help them self and want a better life. I have no time for those who think a king hit is something to be proud of.... I have little or no time for ppl using egotistical violence on guys like the poor bugga they buried today...
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'ignitionswitch' I believe a lot of it omes down to boredome, to many restrictions on outdoor activities 4 example. These days if you want to go camping your not just aloud to go anywere cause its illegal plus if u go to camp sites there's restrictions on noise music excetera, if you wanna go fishing crabbing excetera u have to pay for licences and a lot of it is just gettin to expensive and no one can afford it or Is willing to pay to do those types of activities witch are what australia is ronoun 4. the list goes on. Everywere is gettin to Densly populated. Facebook. So many reasons on y this happens. - Posted from rhpmobile grow the fuck up!
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RHP User
11 years ago
The most serious crimes can't be heard at local court level, They go up to County Court. At that level the OPP will do what they can but serious crimes all too often get plead down to a secondary charge which doesn't hold the penalty (unfortunately). I wholehearted agree with Jay on this one. Sick to death of hearing how little Johnnys mother was an alcoholic and her various boyfriends used to touch him up and he was a drug addict by 12 therefore he has an excuse to behave as he wishes...
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RHP User
11 years ago
Strange thread to incite so much hostility I think. Kind of counter-intuitive. Anyway, one thing comes to mind. I've been talking to make friends quite a bit lately about young adulthood, testosterone and aggression. I've been trying to understand how overwhelming the urges are - the urge for sex, for battle, for freedom, all that. From their comments it seems the urges are pretty damned strong, no doubt more for some, less for others. I wonder if the combination of young male urges, no healthy outlet for them and an unhealthy amount of alcohol explains the dreadful choices guys make. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Qefenta2' Is firmly rooted in our Australian psyche.We celebrate thuggery in film and television. Turn murderers and thieves into National heroes.....Chopper Reid,Mick Gatto,the Morans, Carl Williams ,Roger Rogerson et al. These men even tour the country and people pay to see them celebrate their lives of crime. So why be surprised when young men become violent thugs? Ned Kelly is another legend. Waltzing Matilda is our unofficial anthem. The country was originally settled by convicts and more were sent over a 50 year period. We stole the country from it's previous inhabitants. :-S
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RHP User
11 years ago
I must be on the wrong website. King hittin', dog shottin', coward punchin' and whatever they called it in Shakespeare's day is really at the back of one's mind where it belongs. maybe there should be a 500 metre kill zone around Northbridge and any known violent offender entering into it could be shot dead? - Posted from rhpmobile
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Daretodive
11 years ago
Quoting 'Missb72'Quoting 'ignitionswitch' I believe a lot of it omes down to boredome, to many restrictions on outdoor activities 4 example. These days if you want to go camping your not just aloud to go anywere cause its illegal plus if u go to camp sites there's restrictions on noise music excetera, if you wanna go fishing crabbing excetera u have to pay for licences and a lot of it is just gettin to expensive and no one can afford it or Is willing to pay to do those types of activities witch are what australia is ronoun 4. the list goes on. Everywere is gettin to Densly populated. Facebook. So many reasons on y this happens. - Posted from rhpmobile grow the fuck up! Bit harsh Missb
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inspirit
11 years ago
I currently work in a very small country town in WA. NYE saw a young man have his throat be slit open by the "one punch madness" the lad who committed the crime used a machete. The victims dad pored a memorial for his son the other day!! It was a very very sad occasion as the victims mother had just recently become an advocate for a group to stop this kind of thing happening. My heart truly goes out to this family. What the fuck is becoming of kids!! Even more so what the fuck is becoming of MEN. In my younger days we had "The king hit" and that person who committed such was taken care of by peers. I don't expect any kind of reasonable response though I HATE the way our society has become. No one really gives a fuck about their neighbour nor our next generation! What has happened to the care factor for the world we live in?? I put it down to greed! Ohhh.. the lad who tool another's life has pleaded insanity because of drug use!!! All you fucking meth heads are a complete danger to OUR society!! We all know the consequences of it's use! I don't understand why the fuck do you partake in it on a regular basis?? It only DESTROYS lives! RANT I HAD ..... So damn sad!
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inspirit
11 years ago
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inspirit
11 years ago
and as graphic as it sounds..... when the chopper was trying to land on the beach to pick up the body.... every ones car had to be in a circle with lights shining on the victim so the chopper could land. Fucked hey and I hate too think what the young minds have been scared with. Sorry guys but fuck man. One punch deserves harsh repercussions and I do not mean jail as we all know jail DOES not rehabilitate people.
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inspirit
11 years ago
I think it is happening because of the pressure woman are putting on men. You will find statistically lower socio economic areas where single mums are prevalent is becoming societies worse night mare. AND NO I am not having a go at single mums as I am one myself! However where are the men??? in these societies. Sure you have a fucked up break up and the ex won't let you see the kids though surely you have rights. FIGHT for them! Woman who use their kids to get back at their EX have absolutely no place in my life. Fuck am I going too cop it for this rant...Bring it :P
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RHP User
11 years ago
Regardless of a if and when scenario,minimum jail terms and not charges,as these can be defended,20 yrs for the so called coward boys,if your big and clever to do it face the ultimate penalty,don't care about them being rehabilitated there out of the social scene,and yes maybe just yes the next fu@kwit may think twice,if not then maybe the one after,it will eventually sink in !!! - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Stop the assholes that make and supply drugs and ya half way there if not more. That's how to stop it. - Posted from rhpmobile
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madotara69
11 years ago
Unkind words and thoughtless snubs, are but the echoes of a small and frightened person. OP, sorry, to your question and any useful ideas to help stop this, and why it happens? A boy was buried yesterday, another on the charge of murder. (calling it a drunken king hit, coward punch, sucker punch, anything that fits.) Unfortunately for the loved ones to all that, it has become a political and media frenzy. Kings cross, late night prohibition, massive tax increases for the sale of alcohol, Cost cutting, revenue and on and on. I have listened to the parents, The night club owners (a king pin), different opinions and ideas opposing each to the other, within the various figures to law enforcement, politicians gloating to the absence of their partaking in memorial attendance. ( not going to be there, but tell the whole world that I am but not) Two hands above the shoulder gloating, look at me, look at me. The professional annalist and to the three kings crosses ( you would have needed to hear that yourself) tricky business. Then the calls of media facts and front page ideas. (what is new) The very same night, someone was stabbed to death at a local Sydney train station, not a mention, nada, fuck all. Not interesting, worth nothing for the stories. A drunk kid punches another kid in the head (however the punch came) One poor unsuspecting kid known to the drunk offender, cops it and falls to the ground his head hitting the concrete is the fatal blow. Most feel they have been sucker punched, by cowards, even punch back. It is nothing new, and it will happen again. Every day in one place or another, we have all probably witnessed it along the way. Not long ago, the grandstand was drunken kids stabbing each other unsuspecting to death. That is intent and the crowds anger called out " What happened to the kids just punching each other, why the fuck are they stabbing each other." Then shooting each other. Takes a village to raise a child. We have a couple of kids that help cut firewood for the older folk, they get paid an honest buck, some a fishing rod and a place to catch a few. A couple tinnies for the bigger kids and the loan of a motor. Some others a whipper snipper and a regular quid off the older folk. A few push bikes for the girls, BMX for the boys, and lots of broken trail bikes, Even a few horses get saddled up. They are not getting drunk, hardly a reason to punch each other. Actually they all feel pretty proud of themselves, all a part of something. The kids have rites, we owe it to them. That's what we think. Insecure and all , so be it then. Mado Tara xx (and a few)
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RHP User
11 years ago
You wouldnt have a fukn clue shut up and listen for a change, I'm sik of people like u that think u no better, u ain't in my generation so shut the fuk up and listen for change. Shit needs to change and it rules and regulations ATM are fuked, dnt meen to be rude but ya wrong and I'm over been treated like I no nothing. I'm smarter then all o use and no a lot more so fuk up and listnen for change ay. Boredom and money is the main reason. So over elders that think no everything ay use dnt no shit wrong generation. Delete my profile as if I give a shit. People like yas elves is half the reason. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Mado , Seriously' you have too much time on your hands.. Seems you allow so many issues get up your nose, it's not funny. Not the first time you allow your insecurities to run amouk. Worst still' it comes across like you're harbouring jealousies.. Not a good look.. The poster asked for opinions on the coward punch. Remember ?
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's my understanding (caveat: I *could* be wrong - wouldn't be the first time..) that there are a range of penalties available to a magistrate for a given crime, and that said magistrate sentences within those penalties, taking into account any mitigating factors, and precedents set. However, the magistrate has the option of setting a *new* precedent in terms of sentencing. Most are reluctant to do this because of the likelyhood of an appeal reducing or overturning the sentence. CheersJAB
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Findingmemo' I disagree with the cane, I'm glad that the cane was gone by the time I hit school. The way I was brought up, I was taught to let someone take a swing at me, then hit them back twice as hard so they never tried again, no matter who it was. Terrible parenting, but I was never a bully, nor was I ever seriously bullied so in a messed up way it kind of worked. Nobody has a right to lay a hand/cane on my child. I'm not against a smack on the hand or bum from a parent in certain circumstances but that's it. Using a physical act as an attempt to control teaches a child that it is ok to lash out when you get frustrated or angry. It's like yelling at a child telling them to be quiet, doesn't work and doesn't make sense. I love your thinking Findingmemo and I agree whole-heartedly. If you look at people who are violent and dig into their backgrounds, they usually come from homes where violence is an accepted "norm". I totally disagree with bringing back the cane or enforced military service or any type of training that relies on bullying and degrading to teach men they are men (which some military training does). I remember a story told by a lecturer once called the Rabbi's gift and its message was treat everyone with respect and treat yourself with extraordinary respect. In Tasmania they are introducing relationships education this year and it is about learning to respect yourself and others. Its a strategy under their reducing violence against women and their children plan. And that's how its done. Start early, minimise the rates and mitigate the impacts of violent parenting. And, until we have a society that is based in peaceful co-existence, ensure punishment fits the crime. One of my children was abducted from a railway station and beaten and robbed when he was 15 and going through the court process and seeing the offender punished was a necessary part of his recovery from the trauma.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I agree that young people have rights and rites and some people suggest it is the lack of the latter rites that leads to them ending up in situations that get out of hand. There are people across Australia actively involved in pathways to manhood training, there are others that run workshops for boys and men about being the best male you can be, so there is already stuff happening to try and prevent young people from going off the rails. I remember a psychologist saying once that from a very young age children need to be taught to be useful. And it ties in so well to what you are saying Mado about the young people you know who have jobs within the family and community. They are being taught about service to others and being useful. Inspirit, the lack of a positive role model is considered an issue for boys and young men. There do need to be more programs that link male children of single mums with positive role models. I don't agree that fathers don't see their kids cos mum is using them as a weapon. Sure, it happens but I don't think its a majority situation and sometimes kids don't see their dads because he is an arse-hole, and abusive and violent and would NOT be a positive role model. And Qefenta, I agree about making criminals heroes. Its a sick thing we are doing there.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'ApolloThirteen' The most serious crimes can't be heard at local court level, They go up to County Court. At that level the OPP will do what they can but serious crimes all too often get plead down to a secondary charge which doesn't hold the penalty (unfortunately). I wholehearted agree with Jay on this one. Sick to death of hearing how little Johnnys mother was an alcoholic and her various boyfriends used to touch him up and he was a drug addict by 12 therefore he has an excuse to behave as he wishes... Lets institutionalise them, that'll improve the industries profits,in the correctional department., they are most modern prisons over there now apollo, Very comfortable, like a holiday resort, open plan social living and recreational, Wow So much nicer for little Johnny to wish for. (unfortunately). Was little Johnny's case plead down or trumped up. It's comparatives. How do you know what Johnny wishes for any how? Wholeheartedly that is. If your sick to death, how come you are not dead? Actually What are "you" talking about? We have little Johnny, he's fishing, probably eating his sandwich. His mother is not well.
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RHP User
11 years ago
There is ONE answer that would explain the sudden increase in violence.................the increase usage and popularity of steroid's. If we've been drinking alcohol all along yet the violence increases at almost the EXACT same time as steroid use, then how is it only "alcohol-fuelled violence" causing the problem. I'm not saying alcohol doesn't play a role, but alcohol combined with steroids is a cocktail for disaster.These random, senseless attacks fit perfectly with the results of roid-rage. The media can keep ignoring the REAL problem all they want, but when every roid head seems to have attractive women lining up to be with them, then you can quickly understand why steroid use is now so popular. People with short term thinking will always look for the short term fix, regardless of the long term consequences. Just further proof that you can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever !I have no sympathy what-so-ever for anyone that suffers health complications from taking steroids for vanity reasons. In fact, I hope you suffer them sooner rather than later, as that would reduce my chances of being hit by a coward :)
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RHP User
11 years ago
It's clear you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. If the subject matter is beyond your comprehension, keep your comments honed in to those you do understand. Our prisons ARE a fucking holiday resort! They are a joke. The incarcerated need only 4 things: 1: Shelter2: Food3: Clothing4: Work They are incarcerated to serve a punishment - NOT: Here you go sweetie, here's your iPod, laptop, Foxtel subscription, private air conditioner and we'll give you weekend release to go visit your brother for his 40th birthday. Let's give little Johnny a big fat cuddle and tell him it'll be OK. Let's "rehabilitate" him with education on how he can be a productive member of society if he wears pleated pants instead of a blue bandana. All you have do sweetheart is say you're sorry you broke into the elderly womans house, cry for the judge when he asks you if you're sorry that you beat her to within an inch of her life and then raped her repeatedly then stole her life savings. Just tell them you're sorry and we'll let you walk away. I don't know what planet you live on madotara (and it's really difficult to try to work that out when I try to read some of your posts), but on my planet no-one faces "trumped up charges" because the law enforcement agencies have PLENTY of clients and don't have the time to waste making shit up. As soon as little Johnny makes his first visit to Juvey - BAM..... Straight into military school. Problem solved. I don't know what you do in your daily life, but I see these creatures every damn day - and they don't give a rats who they've hurt/injured/maimed. They know full well that they wont get a severe sentence and their only thought is to when their next social check is coming, where their next hit is coming from and how quickly they can post their success at court on Facebook! But, as long as you're perfectly safe up there on Elysium....
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RHP User
11 years ago
Your response has just proven that MissB's comment was infact very well deserved.You are absolutely correct. MissB is NOT your generation. And I would think she probably thanks J.C. for that. I wont generalise on males your age, because there are some really respectful and mature 22 year olds out there, but if you take yourself as an example: You have clearly been dumbed down to the point where you are incapable of even writing a simple paragraph correctly. You have abbreviations all through your rant, your use of "c" for "see" and "u" for "you" is prolific. You couldn't even spell "fucking" correctly. Probably technologies fault, who knows. You blame boredom and money? How's this sound - GET A FUCKING JOB!!! You wont be bored - you'll be too busy working..... Earning money. And if you're bitching about not earning enough money - quit the smokes, stop drinking yourself into a vomiting stupor every weekend, stopping modifying the bejesus out of your "Chevy" ute and you don't need to be on a $150 a month phone plan with you brand new iPhone 5. "You don't know me, i've got a job", blah, blah, blah...... What would I know. You're smarter "then all o use an no a lot more."
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RHP User
11 years ago
Ignitionswitch, you claim that "boredom and money" are the problems. And I know that being from an older generation means you think I must know nothing, but can you please tell me and my generation HOW THE FUCK YOUR GENERATION CAN EVER BE BORED IN TODAY'S WORLD ? There is no boredom in todays world, just boring people looking for an excuse. And going by the poor use of English in your response, I'd say a good way to kill some of your boredom would be to start by reading a fucking book. Not to mention a device called Google that can look into any subject in the world, yet you are "bored". Let's not mention PlayStation, Xbox, free online movies. And I haven't even touched on playing sport, going for a bike ride etc. But don't use money as an excuse for boredom when so many people can find the money for steroids, drugs, partying, tattoo's, yet then cry poor and use it as an excuse to be bored. There is nothing wrong with looking to previous generations and taking the good points but learning from their mistakes. Yet your generation seems to be taking the approach of ignoring any advice and then multiplying our mistakes. Not exactly evolutionary behaviour, is it ? Instead of telling people to shut the fuck up, why not go the other way and actually shut the fuck up yourself and listen to people who DO know more than you. That's why it's called experience, and you'll see this when you're our age looking back at the next generation. Trust me !
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'JustAnotherBloke' It's my understanding (caveat: I *could* be wrong - wouldn't be the first time..) that there are a range of penalties available to a magistrate for a given crime, and that said magistrate sentences within those penalties, taking into account any mitigating factors, and precedents set. However, the magistrate has the option of setting a *new* precedent in terms of sentencing. Most are reluctant to do this because of the likelyhood of an appeal reducing or overturning the sentence. CheersJAB I think they do when necessary , though usually the sentence would sit outside of their jurisdiction, so sending it up to district court would be the decision. I think? Up there appeals can go either way, if one is cheeky. Mado
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RHP User
11 years ago
So much pent up anger, its not funny, and damn well insulting.. I have no allegiance to MissB whatsoever. But reading your rant was completely un called for and hopefully not a endorsement of the way our youth control themselves today ? It starts with respect... if you dont know how to give , you wont get any back. Half the problem is expectation of what the world owes you which by the way is nothing. I dont like authority as much as the next man, but I live on the right side of what society expects of each other... If you harnessed that anger and turn it into something positive. You would see the difference in the way people respond to you.. Yes' you need to be tough to survive but losing your cool is not the way to go.. Jay...
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goldcoastcple69
11 years ago
Like most of the crime out there they do it because they know they can get away with it ..Anyone who has gone through the legal system knows you can pretty much get away with anything in Australia ..Most of the teens king hitting people get away with it with a small slap on the wrist ..Even during schoolies , they take on cops cause they know there is zero cops or the law will do about it ..Even bikies that have being involved in shootings , beatings, threatening cops etc theyre still sitting around fancy cafes in broadbeach with their hot stripper women lol The law is weak ..The only time the law counts is when it has something to do with intellectual property and copyright ..Then youre fucked lol
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RHP User
11 years ago
Reasoning? Have you ever watched that Simpsons episode where Bart wins the elephant (Stampy) from the radio show. At the end of the episode Stampy is taken to an animal refuge and proceeds to head-butt the other elephants. Marge asks why Stampy is the only elephant doing this, and the representative explains that animals are a lot like humans: some act badly because they've had a hard life or they've been mistreated; but, like humans, some animals are just jerks (which he says while Homer's head-butting him).
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RHP User
11 years ago
So much anger IgnitionSwitch. Phew. Seriously man you have your take on things and other people have theirs. No need to go off and abuse people. Maybe for your mates its too much money and boredom but how do you explain the violence in places where people are out having fun? The guy that attacked my son wasn't rich, he was meant to be at school. He was one of the few that come from a loving family so obviously he had a violent streak that he liked to exercise. As for always blaming drugs, I get a little over that too and especially when alcohol is legal and is linked very clearly to so many social maladies. So do we outlaw grog because of those who can't handle what the grog does to them? Going back to ignitionswitch, whose switch appears to be people older than him not listening to him, many of us in here are parents and we communicate with our kids and their friends so we do know what is going on for young people. Just because we are a different generation, it doesn't mean we live in isolation from that generation so I suggest you slip your boxing gloves off and stop acting like an arrogant, abusive know it all.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Tough topic this one, but I can't help thinking the focus on prevention through policing/sentencing is coming too late in the piece. While I respect a Police presence on the spot can prevent it and harsher sentences give the appearance that the pollies are doing something, somebody is usually already broken on the ground before the police or penalties kick-in. So unless we want police escorting us all home after a night out for our own safety, more policing & tougher penalties is not a comprehensive answer. I have parented a 23yo male who spent a few years thinking he was a hard man until he twice woke up in hospital after being KO'd. Ignitionswitch is either trolling, or is inadvertently demonstrating what I think is the problem. There are a lot of young guys who mistake making others fearful of them as "respect". Early & overt aggression is an emotional defense mechanism used by the emotionally immature and those who aren't sure they are worthy of true respect. True respect from others, and for one-self, comes when someone is seen to successfully provide for themselves, their family, their community, and also displays courtesy and consideration for others. While Ignitionswitch is right that teenagers & young adults feel "bored", I think boredom masks the true problem in that they don't feel valued, and they don't feel they are being allowed to contribute. Mate, at least you feel engaged enough to comment. I'm sorry you don't know how to express it and react to it better. We have big structural problems to address in our culture. Look at the youth unemployment figures, 40% in some areas, us oldies aren't employeeing them. The recognition that the skills pipeline needs to be paid for in order for business to be sustainable long term has been lost in the rush to maximise the profit today. Less apprenticeships = less male mentors for the average to poor scholars. Every Australian generation too date has drunk too much and we laugh about fall-down drunk as a larikin act rather than a discourtesy to others present. Drugs, where to start there....pure self indulgence. Then there is excessive materialism that drives the need for a buck and also the mistaken belief that owning expensive tough makes you more successful than others and again worthy of "respect" for the stuff you own (and driving a lot of young folk to mistake acquisition of "stuff" as a pathway to "respect"). Calling it a coward punch is a good start. I think the "Dog punch" someone used better is even better. Sounds less manufactured to me. Next step is to reengineer our community values. Lets teach our boys that talking your way out of a blue is better than decking the dickhead annoying you. Lets teach our girls that inciting the guys to fight over them is not proving they are desirable, it is proving they are a bogan. Lets all look at what we think is fun, does partying ALWAYS involve alcohol & drugs for you? There are plenty of cultures that mingle, have fun and even fuck each other without being wasted first, why do we have too? Lets fix the reasons we disrespect each other. Then arrest and prosecute the few who don't that message.
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madotara69
11 years ago
And it is making a fucking fortune, that's how they are building them now. You are too angry to look out the window let alone some social study. The illusion I seem to be having you can watch it on your Pay TV in the documentary channel's and maybe open up this narrow vision and seriously tainted, try another job, because you are not being professional if you are telling the truths. Burnt out take a berocca Of course the kids don't mind being locked up, no effect and better than on the street. the funny thing. Most of them would die for each other. Make your own reasoning to that. If you want to understand things a little better step out and have some patience to have a good look around. You have some pretty fucked up shit going on in your empire. Mine is pretty simple, if you can't understand the simple things, who has the problems. This is still a good conversation, it's bringing out the best of the worst and that's a start.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I am actually glad you see life the way you do. It has nothing to do with anger, just cold, hard reality. It's because you have been allowed to. Because you are safe. You feel safe. It's all perfume and roses and that is fucking brilliant! That you can have the outlook and attitude you have proves that the very people and system you're flogging is working. It is keeping you safe. My vision isn't narrow. It sees the truth. And that truth gets hidden from people like you, just so you can continue feeling safe in your
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RHP User
11 years ago
Everything is apparently so expensive, yet people pay $25-50 for an ecstasy pill, $6-10 per beer/vodka/scotch and drink a lot more than 1 a night, $200 for a gram of meth, $10+ entry fee for a nightclub, yet a fishing license for a day is $4-6 dollars right? So you're saying that people break the law by fighting but won't break the law by camping somewhere they shouldn't? I'm not seeing the logic. As for your comments regarding missB, you really need to learn some respect. Just because you disagree with someone about something doesn't instantly make them wrong about everything or stupid or inferior to you. Speaking of inferiority, a psychologist can help with your complex.
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RHP User
11 years ago
I have spent most of my life working with young people. I think back to why is life different now than when I was younger. There are a number of things, some of which have been mentioned. When I was a small kid at school my parents taught use to respect teachers, the law, them and ourselves. If I got into trouble at school and I did, I also got into trouble at home... they backed the teacher.... they might go and talk to the teacher in private to discuss issues, but if I didn't show respect there were consequences..... the rules were consistent.... If I was at my mates' place or my aunt & uncle's place.... rule of basic respect and consideration were far more consistent...... Teachers spoke and I listened. I think there is less of that now. We respected the police. With all authority, we may not have agreed with it, but respected it. I was raised by a father who taught me that it took more of a man to walk away or to shut his mouth than to fight. When I was younger, the girls would try to prevent guys from arguing.... unfortunately I seen many girls encouraging it these days. There is no doubt that drugs play a huge part. I thing the alcohol is the easy target. Speed in it various forms is much to blame.... really wasn't that common when I was a kid. Smoking weed was and that tended to have the opposite effect. The steriods are certainly an issue... not only to they produce aggressive behavior, but they lead people to be a target because they are pumped up or have others believe the can fight for the same reason. Drugs an alcohol just don't mix. There is an increase in population.... there are simply more people in an area. More people = more potential for conflict. I live in WA. Perth has limited night life areas. Rather than creating new areas, the couple of areas have got bigger and the venues themselves have got bigger with owners chasing the buck. Responsible service is also a big issue. I know there are people whom I would never have served continuing to drink well after they should have stopped. The licensing laws and trading hours... is it really necessary for alcohol to be served as late as it is? I'm not sure it is, but that's my perspective. The other thing is the games kids play. Video games about crimes, car chases, fighting were some dies, but hit the reset button and all is good. No consequences. being able to rant on line and not worry about who is there who is offended encourages this no consequence. Don't get me wrong I all for opinion, but know when to hold them and when to fold them; know when to walk away and know when to run. I probably said too much, but I just think that over time we have as a society created the perfect storm and it is time to re-asses and maybe turn back the clock for some things. Our jails are there, but they are the consequence not the answer. Laws need to be consistent across the country too. CheersBrad
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RHP User
11 years ago
Alot of truth in what you say there.. I agree, Ive seen first hand how steriods can effect a man. It disturbs me that some of these young guys have a pumped body but a immature brain guiding it. Testosterone under supervision for those who are lacking in it , is a good thing.. Testosterone in the hands of some ego driven thick head is out and out dangerous. You never see these thick heads punching someone who could turn around and put them on their arse. No, its always the inoffensive guys minding their own business.. Coward punch... or Dog punch ' as they say . Is what they do.. they are lowlifes...
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madotara69
11 years ago
in my space capsule, been there done that, some in here even saw me flashing my torch. No of course apollo, you are spot on with the way things are, that's for sure. Findingmemo, It's been well and truly covered On the ABC, they bring in specialists, community leaders and carers, professors of the fields, people who are on the pulse and active to these matters. It's all very much different than some of the advice you are getting here. I suppose you can't say people need a good root on the radio. but you can here. Back to it, keep things sexy and ticking along
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sorry for my rant guys. Should not of put that post up. I left school early and I have had a full time job ever since. I no in hopeless at writing. But I do no how hard it is we're I live for example for young people to get a job. My brother has been trying for 3 months. He has only just got an interview Monday. It's very densely populated down here now and there ain't the vacancies there once was. Again sorry for the last comment guys and personally to who it was aimed at. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
I guess none of us actually know those who may have already commented and given advice who actually are experts in the field, community leaders, carers, professionals, people who have their finger on the pulse and are active in these matters. And I guess opinions are like assholes arent they? Everyone has one and they're all a bit different.
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'ApolloThirteen' Your response has just proven that MissB's comment was infact very well deserved.You are absolutely correct. MissB is NOT your generation. And I would think she probably thanks J.C. for that. I wont generalise on males your age, because there are some really respectful and mature 22 year olds out there, but if you take yourself as an example: You have clearly been dumbed down to the point where you are incapable of even writing a simple paragraph correctly. You have abbreviations all through your rant, your use of "c" for "see" and "u" for "you" is prolific. You couldn't even spell "fucking" correctly. Probably technologies fault, who knows. You blame boredom and money? How's this sound - GET A FUCKING JOB!!! You wont be bored - you'll be too busy working..... Earning money. And if you're bitching about not earning enough money - quit the smokes, stop drinking yourself into a vomiting stupor every weekend, stopping modifying the bejesus out of your "Chevy" ute and you don't need to be on a $150 a month phone plan with you brand new iPhone 5. "You don't know me, i've got a job", blah, blah, blah...... What would I know. You're smarter "then all o use an no a lot more." I couldn't have said it any better myself, thankyou for such an amazing response.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Leave chevy out of this. (intimidation look)
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'ignitionswitch' You wouldnt have a fukn clue shut up and listen for a change, I'm sik of people like u that think u no better, u ain't in my generation so shut the fuk up and listen for change. Shit needs to change and it rules and regulations ATM are fuked, dnt meen to be rude but ya wrong and I'm over been treated like I no nothing. I'm smarter then all o use and no a lot more so fuk up and listnen for change ay. Boredom and money is the main reason. So over elders that think no everything ay use dnt no shit wrong generation. Delete my profile as if I give a shit. People like yas elves is half the reason. - Posted from rhpmobile I'm not sure I can even understand what you are saying...I have no idea what "fuk up and listnen for change ay" means....???and I'm confused why you brought elves into it.... The simple fact is every generation thinks they know better the generation before, but you know what? they actually don't and the smart generations are the ones that learn from the mistakes of those that went before.You are portraying your generation to be not so smart. But luckily I know this is not true of your entire generation so it is just you that I now think of as a complete and utter tool.
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madotara69
11 years ago
is that all, shut up, so fuk up I only said shudup the nicest and friendliest and caring and polite and loving and a hugs and trust in me and all the fckn rest of everything in the book of peace. and you get the king hits, and that's all. Your fucking good ig switch, fuckn good i'll tell ya Lucky the heat seeking missile is in her element right now or her and her friends, well lets just say you are lucky to not be FOBAR
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'WhatMLCrisis' Tough topic this one, but I can't help thinking the focus on prevention through policing/sentencing is coming too late in the piece. While I respect a Police presence on the spot can prevent it and harsher sentences give the appearance that the pollies are doing something, somebody is usually already broken on the ground before the police or penalties kick-in. So unless we want police escorting us all home after a night out for our own safety, more policing & tougher penalties is not a comprehensive answer. I have parented a 23yo male who spent a few years thinking he was a hard man until he twice woke up in hospital after being KO'd. Ignitionswitch is either trolling, or is inadvertently demonstrating what I think is the problem. There are a lot of young guys who mistake making others fearful of them as "respect". Early & overt aggression is an emotional defense mechanism used by the emotionally immature and those who aren't sure they are worthy of true respect. True respect from others, and for one-self, comes when someone is seen to successfully provide for themselves, their family, their community, and also displays courtesy and consideration for others. While Ignitionswitch is right that teenagers & young adults feel "bored", I think boredom masks the true problem in that they don't feel valued, and they don't feel they are being allowed to contribute. Mate, at least you feel engaged enough to comment. I'm sorry you don't know how to express it and react to it better. We have big structural problems to address in our culture. Look at the youth unemployment figures, 40% in some areas, us oldies aren't employeeing them. The recognition that the skills pipeline needs to be paid for in order for business to be sustainable long term has been lost in the rush to maximise the profit today. Less apprenticeships = less male mentors for the average to poor scholars. Every Australian generation too date has drunk too much and we laugh about fall-down drunk as a larikin act rather than a discourtesy to others present. Drugs, where to start there....pure self indulgence. Then there is excessive materialism that drives the need for a buck and also the mistaken belief that owning expensive tough makes you more successful than others and again worthy of "respect" for the stuff you own (and driving a lot of young folk to mistake acquisition of "stuff" as a pathway to "respect"). Calling it a coward punch is a good start. I think the "Dog punch" someone used better is even better. Sounds less manufactured to me. Next step is to reengineer our community values. Lets teach our boys that talking your way out of a blue is better than decking the dickhead annoying you. Lets teach our girls that inciting the guys to fight over them is not proving they are desirable, it is proving they are a bogan. Lets all look at what we think is fun, does partying ALWAYS involve alcohol & drugs for you? There are plenty of cultures that mingle, have fun and even fuck each other without being wasted first, why do we have too? Lets fix the reasons we disrespect each other. Then arrest and prosecute the few who don't that message. One of the best responses I have heard.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Chevy will be just fine. He is very popular with the young ones...
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RHP User
11 years ago
The other thing I believe is that our education encourages young people to question everything. That is excellent for learning and great for giving young people a voice, but over the past 25-30 years it has created a culture where ones opinion is more important than listening. Listening and reading people is probably 90% of communication. Saying sorry and accepting an apology (for a bumped drink in a crowed pub for example) is something that I don't see practiced or perhaps taught. My parents were big on saying sorry and having the good grace to accept an apology.... being angry was my problem and my choice; No-on made me angry - it was my feeling and my responsibility. Let's also remember that some of the incidents are committed by older people not just the younger ones. People in there 30's and 40's are at times involved. Ig switch... good on you for your last post. That took guts to apologise. I like to think that these forums are a safe place to say what we feel and a place where opinions [all opinions] matter - whether I agree or not is not an issue. Whether written well or as best as we can. As long as it doesn't get too personal, I say great. You are right about Mandurah. It is another place where Govt have allowed development with out the appropriate infrustructure spending to support the population - and now we play catch up. It was a retirement town that just grew out of hand. It is slowly getting there now, but has a long way to go. Young people with nothing to do do build up resentment - especially if the don't have a job, places they can call theirs and respect from the community. They then have a few drinks, start to skylark, one thing leads to another and someone may say hey what are you doing? and then it's on. Was said to me in my teens by a Baptist minister.... "We've systematically engineered a society that we can't stand". This sort of violence is a symptom of that. And that was said to me nearly 30 years ago!
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RHP User
11 years ago
Without trying to detract from the angst and anger going on within this thread....interestingly enough, one of the culprits of one of these crimes has an active profile on this, and another swingers website. I wonder if anyone had any close calls with him? Any meeting with this guy and his partner could certainly have had the potential to have ended poorly.
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'ignitionswitch' Sorry for my rant guys. Should not of put that post up. I left school early and I have had a full time job ever since. I no in hopeless at writing. But I do no how hard it is we're I live for example for young people to get a job. My brother has been trying for 3 months. He has only just got an interview Monday. It's very densely populated down here now and there ain't the vacancies there once was. Again sorry for the last comment guys and personally to who it was aimed at. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
that's another can of worm's that shite, botherer's - pass thankyou
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Shane1973xxx' Without trying to detract from the angst and anger going on within this thread....interestingly enough, one of the culprits of one of these crimes has an active profile on this, and another swingers website. I wonder if anyone had any close calls with him? Any meeting with this guy and his partner could certainly have had the potential to have ended poorly. There are probably many on here who've got into a fight in their life... and there but for the grace of [whoever you believe in] God. I'm not one of those, but there would be those who have. Before it happened he was probably a normal bloke who did normal things like us all on here. He got pissed up (and who knows if there where other things). He did the wrong thing at that time and should pay the consequences for that incident... perhaps wrong pace at the wrong time, but still very wrong. That doesn't mean that he would have been a risk to others on this site. It is a Saturday night in every Aussie city... there will probably be a few RHP members out having a good time at the pubs and clubs, some may have a fight but I hope none will finish up doing what has happened all too often recently. He may not have had a violent past... others on here may have.
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RHP User
11 years ago
This is getting a lot of airtime for an issue that is not new, and is not something that actually kills that many people. How many people in Australia have been killed by king hit, compared with the number of people killed by these other causes? Let's use 2011 as an example. The ADF figures are from Wikipedia, rest are from ABS. * Assaults, overall? 190 deaths in 2011.* Accidental poisoning? 987 deaths in 2011.* Suicides/intentional self harm? 2,273 deaths in 2011.* Car accidents? 1,543 in 2011.* Serving with the ADF? 11 Australian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan in 2011.* Medical negligence? Potentially up to 18,000 per year according to some media reports. I'm not saying the likes of Shaun McNeil shouldn't be executed by firing squad (they should be IMO). I'm merely playing devils's advocate.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Someone who" King Hits " is a coward . Maybe the person invoved in the assault should be required, ( on top of any fines /sentences etc.), to publicy apologise to the victim and the family ,explain why he conducted the assault and be forced to realise that being simply drunk is not good enough , you are responsible for your actions and highlight the suffering you have caused. If there is a reason for an assault please explain why in front of everyone present?. Imagine , in the case of someone being comatose if the aggressor was forced to switch off life support? Extreme? We are all responsible for our behaivour towards other people and todays society which glorifies screen violence has no bearing on reality. After boxing for 30 yrs I have never seen anyone involved in the sport King Hit anyone as its A. Its cowardly and B. its as mindless as driving a car into someone and expecting them to walk away unscathed. So many so called tough guys come to a gym get taught a lesson and normally never come back , these are the people who hit others when they aren't looking under the excuse of alchohol. Feedback
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RHP User
11 years ago
Have had some kind of physical altercation in their life, be it a punch, a push and shove or similar. Not just when intoxicated either. Many young kids have had fights with siblings, women being hit by husbands or partners and vice versa (plenty of which go unreported I might add). Every single one of those incidents were mere inches away from tragedy, from the six year old twins fighting over the swing to any other variation you care to mention. I make this point not so that people feel sorry for the perpetrator but so that maybe people realise that the "monsters" portrayed in the media could very well be someone that you know had their own circumstances been ever so slightly different.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'vfr600' This is getting a lot of airtime for an issue that is not new, and is not something that actually kills that many people. How many people in Australia have been killed by king hit, compared with the number of people killed by these other causes? Let's use 2011 as an example. The ADF figures are from Wikipedia, rest are from ABS. * Assaults, overall? 190 deaths in 2011.* Accidental poisoning? 987 deaths in 2011.* Suicides/intentional self harm? 2,273 deaths in 2011.* Car accidents? 1,543 in 2011.* Serving with the ADF? 11 Australian soldiers were killed in Afghanistan in 2011.* Medical negligence? Potentially up to 18,000 per year according to some media reports. I'm not saying the likes of Shaun McNeil shouldn't be executed by firing squad (they should be IMO). I'm merely playing devils's advocate. Awesome stats, but very sad... we may not be able to change all the stats... and there are nearly 23,000 lives that were lost unnecessarally. I've lost loved ones premeturely, and it isn't fun... the 190 we are taking about are not just stats, they are people... people who have families who loved them... only a couple of years on their pain is still very raw. we owe it to these people to change laws, education, public perception... whatever it takes so that the families of 190 people in 2014 don't have the ones they love recorded as a mere statistic. That means real discussion and action. like the reclaim the night campaign... we, th people can change things... the question is do we want to?
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RHP User
11 years ago
When will this failed social experiment of treating the culprit with minimun sentencing and a holiday camp prison system. Until you loose the scocial worker mentality and bring back real discipline crime will continue to flourish unabated, and Australia will be similar to South Africa in a few years and control of the streets will be lost,
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RHP User
11 years ago
I wonder how many of the victims you see were the instigators? I don't condone any violence to my fellow man , but on the other hand there are so many tools out that get drunk , mouth off and end up getting punched out then running and hiding behind the law. - Posted from rhpmobile
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Missb4u
11 years ago
Quoting 'badfish' I wonder how many of the victims you see were the instigators? I don't condone any violence to my fellow man , but on the other hand there are so many tools out that get drunk , mouth off and end up getting punched out then running and hiding behind the law. - Posted from rhpmobile I'm sure this happens often and I have seen it myself. Even so though just because someone is mouthing off doesn't mean you have to hit them, self control is a marvellous thing. and really the guy doing the hitting of a drunken person mouthing off in my opinion would be considered a tool.But that's not what this is about. I believe the cases being referred to are the ones where the guy that died had done nothing, was literally walking down the street when he was hit in this cowardly manner.
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Man2DesireU
11 years ago
Thank you .. thank you ... thank you ChasingRainbows... for the most insightful.. intelligent.. and useful comment I've ever read in here .. truth is a beautiful thing.. xx
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Kattss
11 years ago
Do you think it comes down to the prevalence of combined drug use and over consumption of alcohol? Add amphetamines and alike to the mix and a drop dead drunk is now up aggressive and punching when normally they'd be passed out snoring in the gutter. Or has it always gone on and only now the media is covering the issue ad nauseam?
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RHP User
11 years ago
Anyone convicted of assault should be made to wear a bracelet for a predetermined period of time that prevents them getting access to alcohol. Persons giving them alcohol are guilty of a crime and therefore subject to a significant penalty. During this period the offender should be made to attend alcohol counselling. Most of this shit is just 'drunken fighting'. Take out the 'drunken', and most these kids are just testosterone loaded dickheads.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Havnt read all the comments but the first couple I did... Do you know what a king hit is? A king hit is when you line someone up and punch them as hard as you can when they arnt looking.... Coming up behind someone and going BANG... That's a king hit and it's only done by blokes with no balls to stand toe to toe... A fight is fight, brush it off and buy each other a drink.... A king hit should have a minimum sentence attached to it because it's a dogs act. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'BradBi'Awesome stats, but very sad... we may not be able to change all the stats... and there are nearly 23,000 lives that were lost unnecessarally. I've lost loved ones premeturely, and it isn't fun... the 190 we are taking about are not just stats, they are people... people who have families who loved them... only a couple of years on their pain is still very raw. we owe it to these people to change laws, education, public perception... whatever it takes so that the families of 190 people in 2014 don't have the ones they love recorded as a mere statistic. That means real discussion and action. like the reclaim the night campaign... we, th people can change things... the question is do we want to? nobody wants anyone to get hurt, but no matter how harsh the sentence or how many laws you make - people will still die. It doesn't matter how harsh the punishment is made, these bad things will still happen because people doing them aren't thinking rationally.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'Missb72' Quoting 'badfish' I wonder how many of the victims you see were the instigators? I don't condone any violence to my fellow man , but on the other hand there are so many tools out that get drunk , mouth off and end up getting punched out then running and hiding behind the law. - Posted from rhpmobile I'm sure this happens often and I have seen it myself. Even so though just because someone is mouthing off doesn't mean you have to hit them, self control is a marvellous thing. and really the guy doing the hitting of a drunken person mouthing off in my opinion would be considered a tool.But that's not what this is about. I believe the cases being referred to are the ones where the guy that died had done nothing, was literally walking down the street when he was hit in this cowardly manner. Badfish... t's going to be really hard to run off and hide behind the law if you're in a coma or dead... . I agree with you Missb, though it's one of my children that witnessed an attack rather then me. I have seen a lot of drunken behaviour over the years and in my experience, a drunk person with violent tendencies will find someone to have an issue with, and there is a culture. I've lived in Perth all my life. Usually people picked on are in a more vulnerable position. Women, people with their backs turned, a single person against a group. Two of the examples I'm thinking of began in the home, I was one of the women threatened by her partner because we were talking about his abuse in a private room, Mr P came in at the right moment and defended us both despite the lies of the man who tried to say I'd attacked him LOL. I got the woman out of the house that night despite people running to warn the man. The person with his back turned was a bouncer in the pub and he was hit over the head with the butt end of two piece pool cue. The man against the group was my boyfriend who was drunk and stupid. He said and did stupid stuff at a house party that had a drunken group of men follow and hunt him down through the district. I was sober and had arrived just before he got himself into trouble. I followed and intervened when they had him on the ground in the middle of the road. I scored a split lip (his ring hit against my tooth and split my lip all the way through) for my trouble, but other people nearby did see and the group of 'men' ran off like the cowards they really were. My attacker got a suspended sentence because it was his first crime. The boyfriend did not press charges but he did attend court with me. I was 17 then and I still have the 1 cm long scar on my lip to remind me. . I support your suggestion of control Wild_Wild_West. It follows the idea parents are expected to use with their kids at home nowadays. Time out. Some of course will use suggest weak parenting is the problem but all the examples I've listed above were in the first half of my life... three decades ago LOL.
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RHP User
11 years ago
In all of the above cases, there were bystanders. I consider myself to be one, and I expressed my outage by acting, those are only the most outstanding examples I can think of. Thank God, the second half of my life has been much calmer! . PS: the bouncer who got hit over the head turned around and ejected the idiot from the pub... alongside the other bouncer they ejected the whole group. The police when they arrived, and the group was still outside the pub, could do nothing.
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