M40
The coward punch phenomenon, and how to change/stop it.
January 14 2014
Comments
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'coops14' Havnt read all the comments but the first couple I did... Do you know what a king hit is? A king hit is when you line someone up and punch them as hard as you can when they arnt looking.... Coming up behind someone and going BANG... That's a king hit and it's only done by blokes with no balls to stand toe to toe... A fight is fight, brush it off and buy each other a drink.... A king hit should have a minimum sentence attached to it because it's a dogs act. - Posted from rhpmobile and I'm glad to know it. However you look at it, it's a coward's act isn't it. Not worthy of the name, king hit.
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enange63
11 years ago
Alcohol
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RHP User
11 years ago
A name change would achieve results with the youth yes... Older generations will always know it as king hit... But if it's always reported as coward punch, I picture 12-13 year olds who do it bagging each other out saying, oh you hear about such and such... He coward punched a guy... And that will be an insult.... When i was young and people say, hear about such and such, he king hit someone and knocked him out cold... Most people would say, what a dog, but inside, would be abit afraid of him.... And that's the respect people who king hit want... Fear on the streets.. Amongst teenagers anyway... That's the culture I came from growing up.. Fear = respect... Call it a coward punch and it's no longer cool and fearful.. It's simply a dog who everyone looks down on...... Some of you might say it's never cool, or fear = respect is just dumb... You're right, but that doesn't change the fact that culture is out there, I grew up in it, in melbournes west... And these are the same people who grow up to be adults who you see on the news killing people from a one punch knock out. - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'coops14'Call it a coward punch and it's no longer cool and fearful.. It's simply a dog who everyone looks down on...... Some of you might say it's never cool, or fear = respect is just dumb... You're right, but that doesn't change the fact that culture is out there, I grew up in it, in melbournes west... whether its a coward punch or a king hit, you don't think those kids would be a little bit wary/fearful of someone with a reputation for "coward punching"? whether its a "king hit", a "coward punch" or a "fairy tap" - they're still thinking "at any point in time this person might try and knock me out cold and I can't avoid it"
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RHP User
11 years ago
I do agree that the culture is out there. It would be impressive to think it could be changed over time.
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chevtrek
11 years ago
This is good for the ladies.A site that shows all the names of people whodo these offences.Be it cowards punch or stalking.That way they can go there and see if the guy there dating is known for any violence...
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RHP User
11 years ago
People will still be scared, but as the aggressor here's he /her has a reputation as a coward puncher, they will want to prove they can go toe to toe... At least then, the other person has a chance... After a generation of that, toe to toe would become the preference, not king hits.. And as they grow older into adults, instead of hearing on the news about another king hit has killed a person, it will just be reported as another fight.... In not saying it will stop violence... But it may reduce the deaths caused by violence... Would rather two blokes in lock up with broken noses and sore knuckles facing assault charges the one person in jail facing mirder and the other in the morge - Posted from rhpmobile
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RHP User
11 years ago
Be interesting to see if they get through. Hotels Assn apposes them, people are now complaining about tourism. And the are for late at night... the recent deaths were early in the night. All that said, they are taking some action. I would like to see some sort of drug and alcohol testing on the street. Can't get in to any venue without a stamp.... get a different colour stamp if you are pissed (obviously higher level than driving limit) and a different colour if you have drugs detected. The logistics could be a problem, and there would be a cost, but there is already a cost.
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RHP User
11 years ago
ok where do i start?? last poster. registered site.. yeah that will not happen. Not on an oficial govt run site anyway. And that is down to privacy laws. But you could do it as a private entity. And in doing so, you would need to have people constantly sitting in courts and trolling the govt courts web sites.. TV- Alcohol - sports- Courts where do you start. Sport- Ok. Sure there has always been a bit of fighting on the field in regards to nrl. But looking back at the way the game has changed, it seems to me, that, we are now paying Prima donnas to play sport. NOT ALL, but a lot are now, or as it seems to me, of that mind set tht , hey i can now do what i want. Guys walking away from contracts and getting in to fights and other trouble. BTW i still feel if you want a better game, stop payng ithem and let them get a real job like they used to do. It was a better game and the players had more respect. TV- again we get all this crap from the usa shoved down our throats. these so called stars (famous for sweet fuck all, and would continue to be nobodies if they were left where they were found).. Keeping up with the Kardashians. sorry but.. i would like to think that most people on this site would be like me and NOT lower our standards to be anything like these people. and many more like them. the "entitled, me me me me me me me" people who think they are better than everyone else.. Alcohol- Ok i'm bracing to be jumped on now.. This is the major problem in the areas the violence is happening. YES i KNOW it's not JUST the alcohol in play. but c'mon.. do we really need to be out to 3, 4 ,and 5am getting shitfaced?? and btw as others have said, if a lot of this is due to being poor (for want of a better term), then how and why spend all the money you DON"T have on alcohol?? reduce the opening hours of pubs, clubs and night clubs. MORE SO the night clubs as this seems to be the bigger nexus. I don't drink at all, (i am silly enough, and don't need extra help) but i do go to the pub to meet friends and meet people from a boating forum. we meet, they have a drink and dinner and we will pull boat parts out and find a solution to a problem that they or WE might have. Courts- ok maybe i can redeem myself here for the club closing times. judges and magistrates are NOT held accountable for sentences and they have to answer to NO ONE.. After all that is what they have an appeal process for (as they see it) Maybe minimum sentencing is the way to go and i for one am all for it. This is one way to get the judges or magistrates to give a half decent sentence. Yet I am SURE some do gooder will say it is RACIST to have a minimum sentence for this, as they have done so with minimum sentencing before. The older generation will know what i mean soon as i say it, some will agree and (bet you oral sex) some will disagree.. BRING back the old 21 division!! or something like it. BUT they do need restraints in place. as we know the old 21 div did have a tendency to be a little too heavy handed. the cops.. these poor pricks are caught in the middle of it all. they have to step in and try to stop it and then go tell the family of some poor kid that their only son has been bashed to death in the street.. OH and don't think for one minute that this is only a male dominated problem.. women are getting more violent as well.. maybe (and i hope) that smarter minds than mine, will find the answer to the problems we are facing.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Coops, though respect, even on the streets is not all about who can take the most punches and give the best. There is a lot more to it than that. And you are right a dog has no respect and is a coward. Still reckon it's the busted up families, hence; alcohol, drugs, hate, confusion, consequences, a place of mind, little for care, smashed and out of control. Footy was one example where they have changed the game for TV and the kids that have been effected by the confusing signals fighting gives them. Do we blame the kids or look at their mentors? Mado Mado Tara xx
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RHP User
11 years ago
article that discusses this issue (titled "King hits: young men, masculinity and violence", on The Conversation website). Basically alcohol, pub and nightclub closing times etc. are only a small part of the whole story: "The recent outcry in Sydney about “alcohol-fuelled violence” has many people asking whether young men are out of control, or whether alcohol, or our hyper-masculine culture, might be to blame. Now the New South Wales Premier, Barry O'Farrell, has announced lock-outs for new customers and a cease of alcohol trading by 3am, while mandatory minimum sentences of eight years in jail will apply for fatal one-punch attacks involving alcohol and drugs. In the context of these announcements we should remember that, despite these awful recent cases, Sydney is a relatively safe city, compared with Johannesburg in South Africa, or Ciudad Juárez in Mexico, or New York. And if we are concerned with men’s violence in Australia, the half-hidden epidemics of family violence, sexual harassment and rape are much wider problems than street bashings by strangers. But the street violence is worrying, is more visible and has got media attention – and this has produced a debate about what’s happening among young men. The blame game Is this “alcohol-fuelled violence”? Drinking is often part of the lead-up to violent episodes, domestic as well as street. But alcohol can’t meaningfully be called a “fuel” of any particular behaviour. As Shakespeare knew, and modern neuroscience confirms, ethanol has complex effects. It is often a depressant, sometimes a stimulant. In many situations it’s more likely to make you feel sleepy or ill than encourage you to hit out. It’s the circumstances of drinking, rather than the chemical itself, that we need to understand. Can we blame “the male brain”, testosterone, or genetics? This suggests that young men are really animals, replaying a primitive world in which violence is natural, where males fight cave bears or hunt mammoths. Unfortunately some enthusiastic biologists retail such bed-time stories about violence, without knowing the historical, psychological or social-scientific evidence. The psychological evidence is very clear. More than a hundred years of research looking for broad psychological differences between men and women have found remarkably few. The evidence, from studies involving millions of people, shows that men as a group, and women as a group, are psychologically very similar. This finding is often ignored, because it goes against so many of our stereotypes; but the evidence is strong. So we cannot explain men’s involvement in severe violence by a “male brain”, or testosterone, or anything supposed to produce different mentalities among men and women. The different mentalities are a myth. Can we blame a “criminal type”? Criminologists for a long time looked for such a person, but the search failed. Violence can’t be explained by a particular type of human being. Criminologists have, however, identified social circumstances in which violence is more common and patterns of violent behaviour might be learned. These circumstances include high levels of social inequality and marginality, situations in which there is cultural emphasis on men’s dominance over women, and confrontations with police and private security. Can we blame the media? Not in a mechanical way. Media research suggests there is no direct transmission from what people see on a screen to how they act on the street. Yet mass media are relevant. Probably the images of extreme violence – the beheadings, snuff movies, torture – are less significant than the relentless flow of images in “action” movies (which Hollywood specifically targets at young men), commercial football, other body-contact sports, cop shows, thrillers, and the like. Those genres make up a large chunk of current popular entertainment, with a huge cumulative audience. They are built on narratives of masculine aggression, physical confrontation and dominance. So media are feeding young men narratives about how men get excitement, success and respect through confrontation. But what would make young men take up such stories? A question of masculinity? “Alcohol-fuelled violence” often involves some kind of masculinity challenge – for instance, a group of young men confronting the bouncers at a drinking venue. It’s important to note that masculinity isn’t a fixed state. Masculinities are patterns of conduct that have to be learned. There are multiple forms of masculinity, some more honoured in a given society than others. Especially for young men, masculinity is often in question or under challenge, and the presence of an audience is important. So we need to look hard at the social situations in which violence is happening. Some of the recent episodes are in zones of exception – places and times in which ordinary social rules are supposed not to apply, where everyday social relations are absent, such as Sydney’s King’s Cross at night. Heavy drinking is often happening in an all-male, all-young peer group. An element of impunity, a sense that you can get away with it, is also part of the picture. If we want to know why some young men get into zones of exception, confrontations and episodes of violence, we might ask what else is happening in their lives. Is our society giving them secure jobs? Worthwhile work to do? Models of positive relations with women? Occasions for care and creativity? I would guess the answer to these questions, for the young men involved in street violence, is often no. But I’m not sure of it – and I don’t think our legislators are, either. It would be a great pity if the only response to these dismaying episodes is more confrontation, this time from the government."
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madotara69
11 years ago
More drunken violence there on any given night, bucks party central, The Mercantile? pub (Irish pub) no prejudice, but it is a hot house. If they shut down the cross late night hours it will kill the joint, lot's of people out of jobs, the back street addicts will move out further into local community, the drug trade will spread too, not naive If the crowds are in these controlled venues and look at the street policing, there is taxi security, bus security, every venue has security salesmen (specialised security) Only ten bucks cummon in Sir and Madam. There is squads of police each side of the street writing up the known locals, all night. The young drinkers are still going to drink, they will move to underground, private addresses, all over the place with little to none policing or security with the bar trade. But they will need to purchase grog from the bottle shops. (Tax is in the murky water) kings Cross the poor kids family, A kid sitting in a cell now facing murder, probably can't remember much to it all. No excuses he is up for it, he is paying for it now and he is more than likely going to be made the example, He will be in protection, as there will be a few that would test his fighting skills in prison, teach a lesson, whatever. His life is hell, he will settle or come out worse. 2 years 10 years, not much difference, if there is nothing much out there. If it did not happen in the cross, it would hardly have made the news, like all the other fights stabbings shootings that went on that night. People being punched and killed for it to alcohol makes up for less than a percent of people killed from drink driving, same thing isn't it, kill a kid drunk behind the wheel of your car. Always thought a King hit was a knock out punch or all but the end of things there. Cheap shot the cowards punch. Anyway the grieving parents are sad for the loss and can't bare to see one of the ex girlfriends walking with a pram, they are angry but sane to the boy that hit and killed their son , they are disgusted with how they have been treated to all this. that is what I made from it. Might be wrong. The Cross is a powerful place money wise, lots of it big business, hard to shut down. Tax on grog state wide, nationaly looks like the agenda. "So the young blokes can't afford to buy it", is that cods wallop. Rather buy you a beer and have a chat about a few things than fuck around punching each other in the head, nine times out of ten same result anyhow. I pay my respects to the parents wishes and loss of their son, to all this. Sorry if it is upsetting anyone. Don't feel the coward punch is the real problem over all. Hope I am wrong.
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RHP User
11 years ago
They want something done, so the govt does something. Just hand the parliament over to tabloid media, it'd be quicker and save money. It is completely nonsensical legislation, introducing changes for the sake of scoring political points and devout of proper thought or reason. e.g. harsher sentences if you are intoxicated and willfully hit someone, then if you are sober! I'm firmly against minimum sentences for such minor crimes, and all in favour of maintaining the independence and discretion of the judiciary. People whine about sentences, but legal reporting in popular media is an absolute joke. The classic is the hot Maccas coffee - on the face of it, duh, but when you know the details the verdict makes sense - but media reporting is about short snippets to grab attention, not building a thorough understanding of complex things. I won't say I think judges get it right all the time, it'll go both ways, but on balance I think it works. The last thing I want is all this community accountability, or insertion of emotion - a sentence shouldn't be influenced by who makes a more emotive statement.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Sorry for the wall of text, Im on iPad and it just isn't inserting breaks the way i wanted :(
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RHP User
11 years ago
I feel that the problem is in part due to failings deeper within "the system"(bear with me on this), not to mention the culture of Australia, not just among the target age group either. There seems to be a massive lack of personal responsibility and accountability in all facets of society. From the lowest members of society to the upper echelons. Targeting drinking or drugs is a band aid solution which can't possibly work. Education, sufficient punishment for other drug, alcohol and violent crimes, community based program's that start in high school and give young people something to do and a sense of responsibility and pride of achievement, rather than going out and getting on the piss every Friday and Saturday night. Do away with the "playstation generation" by making kids more active, the theory being that if young people take pride in their health and fitness they are somewhat less likely to throw away a weeks worth of exercise for a big night out. There needs to be a lot less carrot and a hell of a lot more stick in our society, these days young people under 18 know that they can get away with lots of crimes before they'll get in serious trouble, this is not sending the right message. By the time a lot of these kids hit 18 they are so deeply entrenched in their criminal lives that they literally don't know any other way to live. What I'm saying is that by giving so much leeway, we as a society are helping to create the environment which allows violent young men to flourish. I know that there is a lot more to it and a lot of things I probably haven't written things exactly as I might have liked, but it's food for thought nonetheless
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RHP User
11 years ago
I agree with much of the recent comments. I goes back to the home and where the values are set as small children. The values of sharing, saying sorry, accepting and apology, respect for people, respect for property, respect for authority, respect for your elders, respect for yourself. This may at times require punishments of some sort to teach lessons and dare I say it a smack (I know there are those who disagree, but I'm not talking a flogging and I am talking last resort). Parents need to be more accountable for their drinking and drug taking habits and their respect for authority and the example they set for their kids.... schools need to reinforce these values, not be charged with teaching them - the school did not create the child, the parents did. Schools need to be empowered to appropriately punish kids when they behave unacceptably, and parents need to accept that their kids did something wrong, not get all defensive - "Not my little Johnny". When punishment is over, we need to separate the behaviour from the person and reward good behaviour. Kids need to earn the thing they have or are given. We need to teach more about responsibilities and less about rights - this 'entitled' generation is a result of overemphasis of rights over responsibilities. It is not an easy fix, because kids don't come with a manual and every one is different. Parents have responsibilities, and kids have responsibilities. Kid want boundaries and that is when they do their best. It is through responsibilities that rights are earned. The values above are things that are common to all faiths and functioning societies. The teaching of these things will not only address this issue, but many of the issues in our society.... drink driving, graffiti, road rage, violence against women to name a few - even when it is respectful to use a mobile phone. Having a strong set of instilled values brings self respect. Self respect then enables people to respect others and other's property. Yes there is a need for consequences - and we have a huge number of people who have not had this up-brining. The penalties need to harsher for all sorts of things. At the end of the day, it's not all about "ME".
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RHP User
11 years ago
I know what it it's all about on the streets and there is more too it... But this has been going in for a long time.. When I was a teenager it was common to pick a fight with any random guy as long as he was twice your size.. Back then, if you can start a fight and go toe to toe with a guy bigger then you, and belt the shit out of him... It was considered a feather in your cap... But anyone who did it from behind was a dog. - Posted from rhpmobile
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madotara69
11 years ago
I didn't and wouldn't suggest you're shy of Old school rules, and you have pointed to some differences to the old school watered down to a whole bunch of words claiming respect, none of which are done. Guns have given any size bloke a sense and received place of power to the moment. Knives have been dipping into the debate a fair while longer, less argued both these days But Coops I am just suggesting that, back in your testing grounds, there would have been someone you would care to the old school teachings. The kids these days, don't know what old school is, just some words with school, so they don't give to fucks to it anyway. Living the streets in your day, rules (not the debate to them) were simple and made clear, dogs to frightened to be dogs, some only occasionally would bark, Nothing in anyone to these new school rules, because there less old school through the transition. Frustrate the fuck out of you at times sure. But these kids don't have many of the likes to who is under your wing. No need to speak to that. It's a fast dog eat dog world, feral and respect comes in a cornflakes box with some bells and whistles for some tune. Why not sneak up and punch something in the back of the head and run hide, see if anyone was looking. Have the cornflake respect, with no fear of a clip across the ear and a serious conversation to it. Fronting up to his honour, magistrate sorry, explaining how your good mates face happened to land on you fists while you were both helping a little old lady across the street, would probably suffice to the time you had to sobber up, and the don't let me see you here again promotional summery would have you both thinking about, what ever it was interrupted, but conversation took place then, not the fighting words a few schooners suggested the night before, and you both wouldn't be feeling in peak physical condition anyway, couldn't be bothered to fuck around to the finer details the left hook would say. First up , so missed breaky a pie the focus and how often did intent get thrown on the top, lunch and dinner stuff. Until the kids these days have some form of order from guidance, they only know the rules of unpredictability, unpredictable to the respect as it has no meaning. And the older blokes, to the likes of yourself and the era, have settled to the ladies, more so. Can't really argue that with much tone, because you must have been a little tipsy when you posted, arguably two hands above the shoulders to how busy these ladies are keeping you these days. The gloat came a month later. bahahaha No order Coops, well less and less.
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madotara69
11 years ago
Quoting 'S_OnTheLoose' They want something done, so the govt does something. Just hand the parliament over to tabloid media, it'd be quicker and save money. It is completely nonsensical legislation, introducing changes for the sake of scoring political points and devout of proper thought or reason. e.g. harsher sentences if you are intoxicated and willfully hit someone, then if you are sober! I'm firmly against minimum sentences for such minor crimes, and all in favour of maintaining the independence and discretion of the judiciary. People whine about sentences, but legal reporting in popular media is an absolute joke. The classic is the hot Maccas coffee - on the face of it, duh, but when you know the details the verdict makes sense - but media reporting is about short snippets to grab attention, not building a thorough understanding of complex things. I won't say I think judges get it right all the time, it'll go both ways, but on balance I think it works. The last thing I want is all this community accountability, or insertion of emotion - a sentence shouldn't be influenced by who makes a more emotive statement. Balance. Not much weight to the coward punch alone. Shame to see it welcomed for the chance at the time, in the media world, it couldn't have come at a better time, political journalists that is. Made a show of the victim, disrespect to his parents and worse used them all. Put that in the same basket as the coward punch, I would.
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RHP User
11 years ago
let them hit first then when you hit back its self defence.but be careful when retaliating if you have any combat experience or self defence training that will be used against you if you were to do some serious injury to the assailant.its an unfair world out there my parents always told me to walk away from a fight there is no bigger insult to a bully but some times you have to fight back.
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Seachange
11 years ago
Quoting 'gentalgiant' You wouldnt have a fukn clue shut up and listen for a change, I'm sik of people like u that think u no better, u ain't in my generation so shut the fuk up and listen for change. Shit needs to change and it rules and regulations ATM are fuked, dnt meen to be rude but ya wrong and I'm over been treated like I no nothing. I'm smarter then all o use and no a lot more so fuk up and listnen for change ay. Boredom and money is the main reason. So over elders that think no everything ay use dnt no shit wrong generation. Delete my profile as if I give a shit. People like yas elves is half the reason. - Posted from rhpmobile gentle giant, don;t lose it. express yourself with words and if people disagree, let them be. life is like that my man and it will not always go your way. have your say and if you believe it has a valid place in your world that can be worked on, then stick with it. there are other people's views that may be valid and hence this is a forum for hopefully, lucid and intelligent discussion. we hear you and we also hear other people. take heart and join the discussion as an adult, with your own views and opinions. respect.
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RHP User
11 years ago
Quoting 'lilyorchid'respect. This is just one of the problems. Fewer and fewer people have NO respect for anyone, or anything else anymore. We seem to be getting this "i can do what i want" generation. Boredom and money is the main reason: NOW this is the biggest load of manure i have ever seen in my life. I can just see them now, sitting in front of the telly. "I'm bored and nearly broke. I better go spend the rest and get drunk"... Surely not. $10 for bait $10 for fuel and i go fishing where it's quiet and peaceful, and I am out of the house for 4 hrs or more. If you are BORED take up a thing called a hobby, or heaven forbid, read a book.
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RHP User
11 years ago
But not in the way people think. As a mixed martial artist, head of security it one of the countries roughest clubs (at least until the new stats come out - the changes have helped), and simply a kid who grew up in a pretty rough town, I've seen it all. One thing I have noticed is that a lot of parents simply told their kids "don't fight". These were the kids more likely to fight in groups, use weapons, dog shot people etc. My parents, and a lot of other old fashioned parents, said "try not to fight - but if you do, don't do these things...". The reason for this is simple: we're predatory apes. As long as there are humans, there will be fights. We can minimize it, but it WILL happen. So many kids have that one rule "dont fight", which means they will either refuse to defend themselves and become victims, or they defend themselves once and since they have broken that only rule, anything goes. Their only knowledge of fighting is seeing the dog shots that fill the "cool" movies (such as the one I see in 90% of American movies where they pretend to turn to walk away then swing a fist when the other guy thinks it's over). People need to teach their kids to avoid fighting, but also accept that there is a chance their kid will get in a fight no matter what they say, and teach them how to conduct themselves properly if it does happen.
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RHP User
11 years ago
as a parent it may sound strange but i believes in corporal punishment. i think sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. bring in public canings for these kids that think they have the right to hit who they want when they get angry. i think slot of kids these days believe they can get away with what they please because their parents are helpless to discipline them because they just have to go to a teacher and say my mum hit me. im not advocating beating kids these. but i got a few straps across the butt as a kid and believe me i didn't do the same thing again. what can parents do when your kids can hit you or swear at you because the law says we can't discipline them. a public canings on thru are would make some of these young retina think twice of being such big memo in their own eyes. - Posted from rhpmobile
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