F62
When does it become cheating?
November 13 2010
Comments
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RHP User
14 years ago
when it turns sexual for me.....i caught a gf once setting up a new encounter.. she gave me the excuse "But he's in the RAAF and he leaves tommorrow at 5:00am to fly to East Timor" oh yeah thats why he is still out partying at 3:30 in the morning lol i often wonder if that line works for him scott
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think cheating is when you don't tell your partner what you are doing, or do not want them find out.
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RHP User
14 years ago
In our view, it's cheating when you do anything you either haven't told, or are not prepared to tell, your partner about.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I was in a committed relationship for 20 years. Neither of us played around but there was plenty I didnt (or wouldnt) tell my partner about. I like to keep my secrets...mine. So techinically speaking I cheated...for 20 years.
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RHP User
14 years ago
yep, that about covers it Blonde... and Fionabee, thoughtcrime doesn't count, but if someone else is party to it then it ain't a secret.
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RHP User
14 years ago
So you are saying that IF I went out one night with the girls and we all had a few to drink (would never happen of course). Some guy came on to me in a big way and I discussed it with the girls telling them that I wouldnt mind doing the horizontal mambo with him, spent all night flirting with him but only danced with him, then I gave him a huge passionate kiss including tongue before leaving. I dont want to tell my husband...he is a bit on the jealous side. This is cheating?
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RHP User
14 years ago
sure it's cheating. I'm not saying it's a big deal, on the cheating spectrum it rates pretty low, and in the end that'd depend on your man's feelings about that sort of thing, being the interested party here. But for me, in a relationship, I'd want to know. So it comes down there to keeping it secret, I s'pose. Was he a good kisser? ;)
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Zustiur
14 years ago
Quoting 'Orallyaddicted' In our view, it's cheating when you do anything you either haven't told, or are not prepared to tell, your partner about. Close but not quite.It's cheating when you either haven't told, or haven't got approval from your partner about.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Zustiur' Quoting 'Orallyaddicted' In our view, it's cheating when you do anything you either haven't told, or are not prepared to tell, your partner about. Close but not quite.It's cheating when you either haven't told, or haven't got approval from your partner about.I really do try and understand the swingers ideas and the use of the word approval but it one I struggle with. I lived under an oppressive regime for 20 years and the idea that I would need approval to do anything really grates, same as the word permission.
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RHP User
14 years ago
surely the thing that separates swinging from cheating is approval and complicity. Cheating is just a label applied to doing swinging-style stuff, but behind your partner's back. I'm not saying there aren't often reasons for it, there are reasons for everything people do, I'm just debating semantics!
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think cheating is something sexual or emotional. The lying and deception is something completely different, most people can forgive the cheating, its the deception and betrayal of trust that is the problem. After all relationships are based on trust.
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RHP User
14 years ago
When you do something that you might not get caught doing but you know would jeopardize the trust, faith and respect your partner has in you. Each relationship is as different as the People that are in them...however everyone knows what is or isn't acceptable in their particular relationship..if you have to hide what you are doing or thinking...you know it's wrong for whatever relationship you are in... All actions begin with an idea...you know whether or not it is a good idea before you are anywhere near doing something... The decision you make demonstrates how you really feel about your partner... Everyone gets offers... It's up to you to decide if what you think you are getting or getting away with Is worth what you may lose completely-like your partner's resect and trust as a result of what you decide to do... Life is not that complicated.... NymphetamineDrm NymphetamineDrm
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RHP User
14 years ago
Everyone is entitled to their own view, and every relationship is different. However, just because YOU, YOURSELF think that sticking you tongue down a total strangers throat is totally fine when you're only ONE HALF of a relationship is, to me wrong. If you know you are with someone that will mind that (or any) kind of behaviour and YOU ARE hiding it from your other half, then I think it is very logical and reasonable to say YES you ARE cheating! The key word here is "mind". Like others have mentioned, if you know your partner will mind, you do not respect him/her by hiding it. What's a relationship without mutual respect? If you do not feel that your parter is within reason because they mind you activities, leave them and find someone who is happy for you to do whatever they mind that you want to do. To me, that's exactly what the swinger couples have done, found someone that is happy for their partners to be sexaully active with others while being in a committed relationship with them. So, in short, exactly as blonde7915 said it. Fully agreed.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Thought I might ad my two cents worth to these threads for the first time. Obviously everyone is going to have their own paramaters about where they draw the cheating line, but in essence the word "cheating" says it all, as soon as your deceiving someone else, not being honest, or up front when you previously agreed to be, then your cheating no simple two ways about it. The best way to avoid the temptation is to (a) be honest with yourself, who you are, what you want, then (b) be honest in expressing that to others that you are involved with, even if it means you arent always going to get what you want. If you want what you want, go back and revisit (a) ................. more like 50 cents wortth :)
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'SWEETIEPIE2010' It's actually not a matter of "approval/permission" but a matter of mutual respect. I approve of who he sleeps with with a veto rule and he does the same for me, all part of a mutually respectful relationship. We couldn't survive without it. Approval is a MUST. He can't just be roaming the prairie willy nilly without my agreement/blessing.........THAT'S called cheating And as a mark of respect for him and our relationship i do the same for him. Great phrase Sweetiepie. Just love it. Thanks to all who have replied.It is always good to get others ideas and opinions. I was watching the show 7pm report the other day and it was a question they posed to a "leading expert" in relationships. It is amazing that her idea of cheating is far for more strict than yours or mine. Hers began with chatting to the same person repeatedly.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'NymphetamineDrm'When you do something that you might not get caught doing but you know would jeopardize the trust, faith and respect your partner has in you. NymphetamineDrm That, at least in my sometimes less than humble opinion...is it. Guess that makes you an "it girl" ND. On this forum, we often limit a discussion like this to Close Encounters of the First Kind...but think it goes beyond that too. The second, third and more on are of equal import.\ Field research...think of your day as a chapter in book. Would you be happy to read everything in Chapter Today as a bedtime story to your partner...or tear a few pages out before you started in? | Life is not that complicated. We always know whose airspace we are flying in, and if not ... \ ...phone home, ET.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Chasing Midnight: "think of your day as a chapter in book. Would you be happy to read everything in Chapter Today as a bedtime story to your partner...or tear a few pages out before you started in?" bingo. if you're doing anything (in this arena of course!) that you wouldn't feel okay doing in front of your partner, or at least telling them about, then it's probably cheating. for some relationships, that's flirting with someone else, or kissing someone else. for others, it could even just be joining up to a site like this. if you know your partner wouldn't be okay with it, and you do it anyway; that's cheating.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Now there is an analogy I can relate to. Thanks Mr Midnight. I have, by necessity, had to live the major part of my adult life by tearing pages out of the book. Sweetie you are right. Some do see things is black and white and others, like myself in shades of grey and it is great to see so many answering with thought and not emotion.
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RHP User
14 years ago
if it's like explicit messages with intention, or dirty picture exchanges, but you're too lazy to actually go through with it, does that count??sometimes i've been naughty, other times i've just been in trouble constantly for assumptions then ifigure fuck it might as well do something to be in trouble for.nb. i really need to improve my r/s partners, choices & habits, nevertheless, i've dubbed him, the "magic stick" coz i ain't that good looking, 50% of the time it definitely ain't my personality, 50% of the time i ain't doing that good of a *ahem* job, yet i'm always forgiven and they come back, then overstay their welcome you women are just gluttons for punishment
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RHP User
14 years ago
you do something that you wouldnt do if your partner was standing next to you. * online chatting. online camming kissing another person meeting another person sex with another person etc. Kinda like chasingmidnights book.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'MsValkyrie'Chasing Midnight: "think of your day as a chapter in book. Would you be happy to read everything in Chapter Today as a bedtime story to your partner...or tear a few pages out before you started in?" bingo. if you're doing anything (in this arena of course!) that you wouldn't feel okay doing in front of your partner, or at least telling them about, then it's probably cheating. for some relationships, that's flirting with someone else, or kissing someone else. for others, it could even just be joining up to a site like this. if you know your partner wouldn't be okay with it, and you do it anyway; that's cheating. Nice work MsV ...... Brae..........
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'MsValkyrie'Chasing Midnight: "think of your day as a chapter in book. Would you be happy to read everything in Chapter Today as a bedtime story to your partner...or tear a few pages out before you started in?" bingo. if you're doing anything (in this arena of course!) that you wouldn't feel okay doing in front of your partner, or at least telling them about, then it's probably cheating. for some relationships, that's flirting with someone else, or kissing someone else. for others, it could even just be joining up to a site like this. if you know your partner wouldn't be okay with it, and you do it anyway; that's cheating. It seems that this is what the majority of us think cheating is. I am not so sure though as a little innocent flirting does no harm and if it avoids a major tantee..... why tell? itsb3n not suckers for punishment ...more eternal optomists.
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platinumblonde69
14 years ago
Cheating is when you have sex with someone (either same or opposite sex) without yr partners consent. Hard to consider chatting to someone, flirting with someone, or camming with someone, as cheating. If thats the case, we all cheat everyday.... As for the definition of cheating as being something you do without your partners consent....wow...that opens a whole new area...There are some things you just don't tell your partner about, just to keep the peace....Why tell yr partner the new pair of jeans you bought cost $249 when he can get a pair for $50 at Lowes???...Why tell yr partner your hair just cost you $80 when in fact it cost you $350???....To me thats called "Keeping the peace". There are some things better left unsaid to save arguments...in our household anyway.... Plat
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RHP User
14 years ago
It becomes cheating when you lie.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think what might be considered cheating for some people isn't for others, each couple need to determine the boundaries and parameters of their own relationship and what makes it work for them. Cheating is when you work outside these parameters without the knowledge of your partner, surely if you've agreed to tell each other before you take the next step or indeed keep things from them (eg. the single guys who sends you 10 SMS a day) then it's kinda starting to cross into deception and from there... once you cross the boundary you're in free fall and only a matter of time till you hit something. What makes swinging work is that couples are open and honest with each other about their activities, if the relationship you're in doesn't come first then it's really only a matter of time till there is no relationship... Just some thoughts from our experiences and observations over the past few years, but as I said it's different for everyone, up to you to determine where the line is to discuss it and own it!
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RHP User
14 years ago
when you fail to offer up the truth. if you lie to protect yourself or someone else and whatever might have passed between you, you have cheated. when you fail to volunteer this same truth without being asked for it, you have cheated. simple really.telling someone that your jeans cost $50 when you paid $249 for them is just downright dishonest and shows the contempt you must hold them in. cheating is any betrayal of any trust that exists between you and your significant other. its not an argument of morality versus money because these things are intertwined in most modern relationships. money has its own morality which just leads us into territories best left undiscovered.........
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RHP User
14 years ago
IN THE INDIVIDUALS EYES I WOULD SUGGEST IF YOU FEEL GUILTY ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS.IF YOU FEEL GUILTY THEN YOU CAREABOUT THE OTHER PERSON DEEPLY.NO GUILT FEELINGS THEREFORE MEANS YOU DO NOT CARE MUCH FOR THAT PERSON.MY GUESS BASED ON THE ABOVE IF YOU FEEL GUILTY THEN YOU HAVE CHEATED.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'barnyard2005' IN THE INDIVIDUALS EYES I WOULD SUGGEST IF YOU FEEL GUILTY ABOUT YOUR ACTIONS.IF YOU FEEL GUILTY THEN YOU CAREABOUT THE OTHER PERSON DEEPLY.NO GUILT FEELINGS THEREFORE MEANS YOU DO NOT CARE MUCH FOR THAT PERSON.MY GUESS BASED ON THE ABOVE IF YOU FEEL GUILTY THEN YOU HAVE CHEATED. so if i cheat and dont feel guilt, then thats ok? but if i feel guilty i have cheated?? what the? you cheat, lie, manipulate and/or abuse your partner or their trust because you care more about yourself or even your dog than you care about them. concealing the truth is just a fancy way of saying you cheated. white lies arent kind or caring, they are lies. you cant turn that deck of cards over and pick n choose the next card that you deal and feel like you've played the game fairly and squarely........
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RHP User
14 years ago
I would agree with that ...and a lot of what others have said. The voice inside your head KNOWS your cheating but the objective blinds. This is not an excuse. It then becomes a gamble. You have to be a calous bitch/bastard to live with yourself if you care for your partner but can live with dirty deed. What has care got to do with the act of cheating? How much self worth do you possess & how much does your partner really mean to you? If your cheating.. I believe your in the wrong life. To Harsh?
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RHP User
14 years ago
SORRY FOR HAVING AN OPINION,MAYBE POORLY WORDED THATS ALL..BUT YEAH THATS MY POINT.BASIC IN MY EYES.IF YOU CARE YOU PROBABLY SHOULDNT DO IT.
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RHP User
14 years ago
If you're confused about what constitutes cheating, then ask your partner. He or she will have a pretty solid idea of what would make them feel cheated on. If their interpretation doesn't work for you, then you're in the wrong relationship.
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RHP User
14 years ago
TOUCHED A NERVE HAVE I.CANT BE BOTHERED WITH A 4000 WORD ESSAY TO EXPLAIN MYSELF...I DONT BELIEVE I AM WRONG.AS SIMPLE AS I CAN MAKE IT.IF YOU CARE ABOUT SOMEONE YOU WONT CHEAT ON THEM..IS THAT TOO MANY WORDS?????SOMEONE HELP ME WITH A 4000 WORD ANALYSIS ON MY 10 WORD STATEMENT JEEZ
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sweetiepie...Maybe I do care and that is why I cheat. By now I am aware that cheating is a sore point for you but not every case is the same. Maybe I do love my man BUT. due to medication he has to take, he cant get it up. very often. So I tell him, gently of course "Hey Babe, you cant get itup so I howzabout I go play with the guy down the road? You cool with that?" So he feels even less of a man because he can not do it for me. But I still love the guy. Have spent 20 years with him. Had his babies and still want the marriage. Sex is a powerful motivator. Masturbation and a box full of toys will only work for a while and then the need for skin contact gets so over-riding. Barnyard2005... yes we are entitled to our opinions. They are all valid. By your reconing if I am walking down the road and there is a gorgeous young tradie stripped down to a pair of cut off shorts, all hot and sweaty in the sun, mmmm sorry, got side tracked. He is over the road from my house and I have been watching him for days (wiping drool from my chin). Anyway. if every time I walk past, or look up from the garden and give him the once over, knowing my partner would be upset with me but not feeling guilty...then I dont care about him? Damn people, now I cant even have a good perve without telling my partner?...or risk a full on arguement about how I dont care, dont love him, dont fancy him, etc, etc, etc.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'SWEETIEPIE2010' I guess Ms Bee it comes down to this. I just agree with the behaviour, i think it's a dishonourable thing to do to yourself and others. BUT if you were choose my main problem here it's when people risk the happiness of their small children for the sake of a fuck. Not bothering to fix a failing relationship just deciding to fuck around. I spent 22 years in a monogamous relationship, but I think Fionabee makes some valid points. In some cases, I think that cheating may save marriages rather than risking them. For those people, the happiness of their children may be well served by one or the other parent stepping out. It wasn't my choice, but that was partly because monogamy was non-negotiable in my mind at the time.That said, if I was in a committed relationship now and I found out that she played around I'd be devastated, but more for the breach of trust than the fact that she had sex with another. I know it looks as though I'm having a bet each way, but I guess that's just because I think there can be many grey circumstances. There probably isn't a "one size fits all" answer to this issue - each of us just has to muddle through it for ourselves.
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ttcoo
14 years ago
All reltionships have bondaires and rules both morally and ethically. So if you step beyond them then you are cheating just like if you play outside the rules of any other game whether it be sporting or doing your tax. if you break the rules that are set by you and your partner then you have cheated.
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RHP User
14 years ago
We are going to have to agree to disagree here. I personally feel that it is not the cheating that fucks up the childrens lives, it is the insecurity that adults pass on to thier children because they are NOT adult enough to keep thier issues to themselves. How many times do we here a woman (or a man) run thier spouse down in front of thier children? It is perfectly feasable for children to survive a broken marriage and still become secure in the love of both parents. It is up to each individual not to carry the sins of the father...or the mother...and pass it on to the children. No cheating does not help. But I think it is the tip of the iceberg and there are far more serious issues to be dealt with than infidelity. Babies do not cry because mummy or daddy fuck around. They dont give a shit. They cry because Mummy is not capaable of pulling herself up and getting on with it...without involving the babies. They cry becasue they want attention...and security. They can have both of thiese things in a sole parent family. They cry because Mummy AND Daddy are too selfishly thinking of themselves and wallowing in thier misery. I am sorry you had to see a life lost over theis but the truth is...people do not commit suicide JUST BECAUSE he fucked around. There is more to it than that
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RHP User
14 years ago
If this is a raw subject for you and I am sorry for your pain.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'SWEETIEPIE2010' And do you really want to be something that you're children have to overcome? Do they really need another thing to have to overcome on this planet? Do you REALLY want to contribute further to that? Questions, so many questions Like Fionabee, I feel sorry for the pain that you've obviously suffered over this issue - there's no question that some people do get terribly hurt by cheating. Many evolutionary psychologists question whether humans are actually genetically wired for monogamy at all though, or whether it's a convention that we've adopted for societal convenience. If so, some people may actually be more genetically predisposed to infidelity than others. That's not an excuse for hurting people, I only offer it as evidence that this is arguably a very complex issue, involving deeply rooted characteristics fundamental to our species. After all, there's never been any real indication that infidelity is decreasing in society, so it seems likely that it's fairly integral to our make-up.If a predisposition to cheat does have genetic origins, suppressing that desire may be akin to suppressing jealousy or envy or any other emotion that we're equipped with. It's not as simple as saying that people who cheat are bad. 'The Moral Animal' by Robert Wright is a fantastic book if you want delve into the genetics of psychology more deeply - it has provided me with a huge amount of comfort at several difficult points in my life.I hope you get over the pain at some point - a big hug for you!
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RHP User
14 years ago
Oh My all the high and mighty morales who cares weather its cheating or not.Instead of trying to justify it lets get in nad some nice good old fashion sex.
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RHP User
14 years ago
maybe you do care and that's why you cheat? care about what? pass sins on to the children? there's no passing, children are sponges and we shape their behaviors at a very young age. they see, hear and learn how to treat their others by watching us. there's no teaching here, they learn all on their own. we lie, abuse, deceive and generally mistreat our spouses in so many ways its not funny. why? because we are selfish creatures. because we don't care enough. because we are weak. you don't need to be caught in a lie for the lie to exist. you don't need to stray to cheat, you can do that by actions and by words and putting yourself first. not sharing a truth is cheating. not sharing honesty is cheating. not being respectful and understanding is cheating.if you need to stray, leave. pack your bags and go. if you need to abuse each other in front of the children, think of them for a change, and leave. if you cant make a shared decision about finances and monetary issues, leave. if being with your mates at the pub is worth arguing about, leave. if telling a lie is the 'easy way out', leave. if telling an untruth about the cost of something is OK for you, leave. you obviously don't want to be part of a 'relationship'.
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RHP User
14 years ago
This is the first time I have stopped by and read all of the comments to one subject and now it also has me thinking. I have been with the same wonderful man for 3 years on and off. It was great for 18 months of those years but the last half has been very hard on me emotionally and mentally, Joys of a mentall breakdown. I have had 2 past marriages that were physically abusive (the first one) and mentally and emotionally abusive (the second one). The first lasted 2 months the second one lasted 9 years. They both broke down because I had been bullied at school and wasnt going to take it from anyone any more...... please guys that read this dont take it the wrong way............. but thatnks to those two relationships I held a grudge against men for many many years, as I was also raped at the age of 12, and in some respect still do. I recently discovered that a friend from before I was married the second time, had seperated from his cow of a wife. I jumped at the chance as I had always had feelings for him. We were just mates for a while then one night he kissed me and I though Great, because my recent partner and I were on a break and had been for several weeks at the time. I really thougth he was making a serious play for me and he told me everything i wanted to hear, like he had wanted me since we met all those years ago and i would fulfill four of his fantasies at once. Yes I did sleep with him twice,but I was still single and not with the other fella.When given the option he chose some other random he had only known for a week or so as he didnt want to kill our friendship.Did he just use me to fulfill his fantasies. Did I cheat on the on again off again partener, or was I jsut fulfilling one of my dreams to actually be loved the way I loved someone else, for a change. I am totally confussed.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Wow!!!!...hasn't this become a "heavy" thread! Just my opinion, and I know it's different to some on here, and I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong as I don't walk in their shoes.... People are fallible. Everyone has a different story to tell, and in my eyes there are far worse crimes than infidelity. That doesn't mean to say it should be taken lightly and I am sure the effects CAN be devastating to certain people. However, is it really worse than, say, being in a loveless, abusive relationship where the kids learn that "it's OK" to treat people like shit, and that "it's normal" to be unhappy and in pain (mentally or physically) all the time. It's all very well saying well just walk out and start again, but if you do have kids and have nowhere to go and have never had your own income (because you've never been "allowed" to have a job), that can be a really daunting task. I am bearing my soul here, but I was a serial cheater in my previous relationships. I managed to justify myself everytime as I never got caught and we had no children. And no, I am not saying that it was the right thing to do, but I weighed up the risks and I considered the benefits outweighed the impact of getting caught in my case. Looking back, I should have done things differently....but if I had, I probably wouldn't be where I am now, and I wouldn't change this for the world. Eventually both my relationships broke up (but never as a direct result of my infidelity as I never got caught). In my 17 year marriage I was discrete and most of the time they weren't one-off "flings" but longer term relationships that went on for months, and in some cases years. I felt the need to look elsewhere as my partner of that time was completely unadventurous and became more and more cautious as her career progressed. She had her faults, and I had mine. I don't think she "cheated" on me.....but if I had found out that she had, then it wouldn't have been something that I would have considered a relationship-breaker. Our marriage broke up because I had health issues and desperately needed to live in a sunnier climate, and she wasn't prepared to "risk" her career to see whether moving to Australia would help me recover. I guess we all have our breaking points and that was mine. OBviously this is a very shortened version of what happened before, during and after, but I moved here, my health issues disappeared, and I ended up meeting my soul mate in 2004. I think you are right in saying it can be traumatic for children - but life is traumatic! It's how we deal with trauma that defines who we are and what we can become. I had my own parental traumas as a child, but I don't blame my parents for how they dealt with their issues. Who I am or what I have become is all my doing...no-one elses. My life experiences have shaped that, but they certainly haven't dictated it. Maybe things just happen for a reason.....
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RHP User
14 years ago
That is the nature of life. There is always going to be more questions than answers. Each answer in itself will raise a hundred more questions. Such is life....it is not perfect but it is what WE make it.
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RHP User
14 years ago
For the past 6 months I have been exchanging emails back and forth with a lovely gentleman...he has been asking me all the questions he has never had the courage to ask anyone else...we have discussed a LARGE number of sexual and emotional issues...have exchanged the odd pic or two (early on) and (in a work environment) met a couple of times...NO his wife doesnt know about me...but based on many of the comments posted above this means this man is now cheating on his wife... Have we discussed the possibility of going fruther than just talk??? Yes...have we acted on it??? No....why should this man feel guilty about having a converstaion with me about his sexual desires and his curiosities when thats all they are - converstaions.... Kisses Focus
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'focusliason' For the past 6 months I have been exchanging emails back and forth with a lovely gentleman...he has been asking me all the questions he has never had the courage to ask anyone else...we have discussed a LARGE number of sexual and emotional issues...have exchanged the odd pic or two (early on) and (in a work environment) met a couple of times...NO his wife doesnt know about me...but based on many of the comments posted above this means this man is now cheating on his wife... My definition of cheating is seeking from another intimacy that one's partner might reasonably expect they should be asked to provide. By that definition, I'd say that your friend is cheating, despite the absence of any physical contact. Cheating is a trust issue, not just a sexual one. The hurt comes not from the sex, but from the feeling of being let down by someone you trust... at least, that's how I understand it.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sorry if it seemed I was meaning you beautiful one but was actually referring to the comments being posted saying that if you do something without the knowledge of your partner then you are cheating...I had better let this lovely man who is only curious about the things he has never experienced know that for many (not yourself cutie) our conversations now constitute cheating...... Kisses Focus
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RHP User
14 years ago
WOW.NO FURTHER COMMENTS FROM ME.I ONLY VOICED MY OPINION.STANDING DOWN FROM THIS TOPIC BUT WILL FOLLOW..
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Snowshoe' Quoting 'focusliason' For the past 6 months I have been exchanging emails back and forth with a lovely gentleman...he has been asking me all the questions he has never had the courage to ask anyone else...we have discussed a LARGE number of sexual and emotional issues...have exchanged the odd pic or two (early on) and (in a work environment) met a couple of times...NO his wife doesnt know about me...but based on many of the comments posted above this means this man is now cheating on his wife... My definition of cheating is seeking from another intimacy that one's partner might reasonably expect they should be asked to provide. By that definition, I'd say that your friend is cheating, despite the absence of any physical contact. Cheating is a trust issue, not just a sexual one. The hurt comes not from the sex, but from the feeling of being let down by someone you trust... at least, that's how I understand it.But he isnt seeking intimacy me from just answers to questions he cant (that he feels) get anywhere else...this man is just curious about things he has never tried...how does asking someone these questions constitute cheating??? Quoting 'Alfred_Hitchcock' focusliason - go have sex with him.... it wont hurt either of you... what you wont know if you never do it with him is what you have missed out together... but dont get attached with him... Alfred, as said earlier we have discussed the conecpt of taking things further but we wont...why??? beacuse even though he is curious to try he doesnt feel he could actually go through with the act...he would feel guilty, he does actually love his wife it would purely be a curiosity thing for him and as he tells me 'I really dont know what I am missing cause I have never tried it'...he only wants information..answers to questions...nothing wrong in that is there??? OH BTW the man in my situtaion has only ever had 1 partner in his life his wife, and just wants questions answered.... Kisses Focus
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RHP User
14 years ago
arent we a sad selfish and self centered bunch? we justify our own shortcoming and lack of courage and commitment with statements like "its only conversation" or "it didn't mean anything" etc etc , and forget the one person who is important in this. Our partner. the one we cheated. the person who we betrayed or are betraying. or in some cases, the other persons partner if you are a single person involved with someone who is not. imagine how they would feel if they found out your betrayal? i challenge everyone here to be as openly honest with their partner as they can be and to admit to any and all indiscretions that they have committed. tell your 'loved' one about the explicit chat you had with another person. or the suggestive texts you sent and received. tell them about the stolen kiss, the illicit meeting in that seedy motel, or the six month long dalliance with some one who meant 'nothing'............and let us all know what the response was. please?
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RHP User
14 years ago
Just so EVERYONE is clear...the man I am discussing is not online...not a member of a dating site of any kind...just someone I met through work... Kisses Focus
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RHP User
14 years ago
I see nothing wrong with discussing these things with another. Cheap counselling service! Guys do it over a beer, women do it over a few drinks or coffee. It is not called cheating then. I personally find nothing wrong with the odd bit of sexy flirtations, discussing things sexual with another...be it man or woman. Some people are just like that and it does not mean that it is going to end up with sex. It has been interesting getting everybodies differing opinions. To me, cheaing must involve sex. Thinking about it is not enough. Talking about it is not enough. One must do it.
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CrackUp
14 years ago
What's the big deal..u cheat - ur current partner doesn't know and u don't hold any powerful feelings of guilt OR you convince yourself and each other, that swinging is the complete utopic lifestyle choice where each is 'ok' with their significant other shafting or being shafted by an outsider to their relationship. I think the only difference here is.. when the individual cheats, they are only deceiving their partner..when a couple adopt the swinging lifestyle, they are deceiving themselves and each other. We all swallow bullshit at the end of the day, to make life work for us...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'focusliason'But he isnt seeking intimacy me from just answers to questions he cant (that he feels) get anywhere else...this man is just curious about things he has never tried...how does asking someone these questions constitute cheating??? When you said that you'd discussed taking things further, I (perhaps wrongly) assumed that he asked questions for the thrill of it, not just out of curiosity. If you're answering questions in the manner that any more experienced person might explain things to one less experienced, I wouldn't see it as cheating. It would still be damned hard for him to explain to his wife though, so I wouldn't be surprised if she felt it was cheating. Guilt or innocence sometimes depends on the perspective of the observer...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee'To me, cheaing must involve sex. Thinking about it is not enough. Talking about it is not enough. One must do it. Now... where have I read that before...? That's right - you lifted that straight from Bill Clinton's autobiography, didn't you?
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RHP User
14 years ago
If you're not established in a relationship it's not cheating Cheating is sex or oral sex End of story
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Maverick83x' Cheating is sex or oral sex End of story So if you discovered that the little lady had been getting a facial from her boss every lunchtime for the last three months at work, it wouldn't be a problem? Many would disagree...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Maverick83x'If you're not established in a relationship it's not cheating Cheating is sex or oral sex End of story But it is apparently not the end of the story. Those on here seem to think that when in a committed relationship one cannot even oggle, leer or have a naughty thought in passing about anyone else UNLESS your partner wouldnt mind AND you intend to tell them.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Snowshoe... technically, not cheating. If my missus kissed some random guy down at the pub, I'm not too fazed, 3 months of kissing the same guy, yeah that's going too far I think you might wanna stop that now. But still, it's not "cheating". SEX??? Whole different ball game! If I'm secure in my relationship then I can handle her pushing the boundaries, because I trust her enough not to break them.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Snowshoe' Quoting 'fionabee'To me, cheaing must involve sex. Thinking about it is not enough. Talking about it is not enough. One must do it. Now... where have I read that before...? That's right - you lifted that straight from Bill Clinton's autobiography, didn't you?Billy Boy did it with Monica. She kept the evidence in her wardrobe for five years before deciding it was time to make some serious money.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Billy Boy did it with Monica. She kept the evidence in her wardrobe for five years before deciding it was time to make some serious money. I wish I had a few of those dresses hanging in my closet! Hang on... that didn't come out the way I meant it...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Maverick83x' Snowshoe... technically, not cheating. If my missus kissed some random guy down at the pub, I'm not too fazed, 3 months of kissing the same guy, yeah that's going too far I think you might wanna stop that now. I was thinking more along the lines of the facial sometimes touted as a skin conditioner...
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RHP User
14 years ago
It's all about perception, a couple of swingers don't consider it cheating if they're side by side building up a good head of steam with a couple of perfect strangers because they're both there together, how could it be cheating simply because she's got some random guys balls banging against her chin and he's nailing the guys wife into a headboard?. It's all to easy and you have to understand that most couples could never get their head around your lifestyle, I don't judge swingers and admit I can't get my head around it!.Single people often have a different perception about cheating, it's easy to talk about monogamy when you're not bound by it, it's also easy to chastise those who are not monogamous scorn a flirt.Attached people that have different sex drives to their partners can end up becoming the scum of the earth in some people eyes, so you're walking down a dead end street trying to explain to an observer that you love someone so much you'd walk in front of a bus for them but they don't feel the compulsion to have sex half as much as you do.The trust issue is obviously a big player here and I understand why, it's so easy for other people to sit there and play councilor on a web site, indignantly explaining that you should simply go separate ways when everything else you have is perfect don't understand.Sex drive is driven by chemicals, our hormones!, it's cruel beyond belief to wake up horny every morning whether you want to or not when you know your other half woke up wondering what's on special at the shopping mall. Love is different, of course there are things we sacrifice in relationships but it''s hard to be a young buck who meets the girl of his dreams and finds his sex drive isn't declining at the same rate as his partners yet he could never love anyone else, the same goes for a woman who's husband finds himself in the shed tinkering with old chainsaws while she's dreaming of sex 24/7.Cheating is cheating, there is no doubt, but there are also rules.I once met a guy who told me some things about cheating that I acknowledged at the time but never paid notice to until I was older, he said if you're going to do it then take precautions sexually, never do it with someone who could embarrass your partner down the line such as a friend or work colleague, he said never sleep with anyone locally as that falls into the category of someone who could embarrass your partner, on top of all this he said never decide you want to just relieve your burdens of guilt by getting it all off your chest, if you do it, then wear it, it's your burden and keep your mouth shut.I would have thought swingers would have understood more than anyone, as they clearly have massive sex drives and enjoy fucking, they live a secretive lifestyle, something that 99% of the time keep hidden from their families, yet they condemn people who have massive sex drives but whose partners obviously don't.
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RHP User
14 years ago
....and I don't want to answer it! Because they will just start taking about things like my salvation, and forsaking all evil and God will save me...and blah, blah, blah Imagine if I did tell them about what I get up to!! I'd get a startled look like roo eyes in the headlights. Their values are different to mine, so I would expect that they would understand. A moral conscience is driven by values. The idea being, that if we live our life according to our values, then there is no conundrum about "what cheating is". I echo others in this post - we all think differently because we hold different values or haven't yet formed them. Morticiaaa...xxx
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RHP User
14 years ago
why does cheating need to be just about sex? please explain! what about the million other things that make a relationship? how is it OK to betray all of that?
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RHP User
14 years ago
I think eveyone has valid points, apart from a few @ Alfred_Hitchcock, having your own space does not include doing something that you know your partner would feel awful about.....and @firekiwi isnt that why people ask questions? To hear peoples opinions? Sooo mine is,, its cheating if it hurts the other person, provided you are in agreement about what you are happy about each other doing....
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RHP User
14 years ago
?? last post didnt work
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jdesnake
14 years ago
My first post...off the fence then...Trying to define a line where cheating starts, is obviously an exercise in futility...its going to be different for different couples, I mean the Vicar's wife who discovers his Porn stash, and Elin Woods may both feel legitimately cheated on."You cheating bastard!""Oh c'mon honey, it wasn't real sex, I just fucked her arse"A conversation perhaps between a soft swap swinging couple....People have said that it is the deception itself that is most hurtful, I don't believe that, I mean people lie to each other all the time in a relationship, in fact sometimes it is the lesser of two evils, "Do I look fat in these jeans?".....I have read somewhere that 1 in every 10 kids (Australia I think) is being brought up by fathers who don't know that they are not that kids biological father, now thats deception!....You don't feel devastated if your partner tells you a white lie, its the importance you attribute to what was being concealed that will do the damage.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Makes me wonder what you do have haning in your closet? Secretfuntime. What a well thouught out answer. I would agree with you. I know people who consider chatting on line tantamount to cheating, those who consider a kiss cheating. I also know others whose partners are considerable flirts and they just laugh it off, secure in thier relationship and themselves. It is a very difficult thing to find yourself married to the person of your dreams and thier sex drive is diminishing faster than yours. A very wise friend indeed. It is YOUR burden, why make someone elses life an absolute misery just so you can feel good about what you have done. Mikeandshel I dont think it is okay to betray your partner on any of the other issues involved that make a relationship work.
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RHP User
14 years ago
How do you repsond to a partner who says i want you to stay married to me but i dont want sex or physical intimacy from you. And if you look for it outside then its cheating. To Me the whole cheating thing is another form of control. One partner wants part of a relationship but not the whole thing of course partner two is going to look for those things elsewhere. We all stay in relationships or otherwise for one reason or another. Hopefully that relationships fulfills what we need but if it does nt. Do you walk away or do you try to make something despite where you are. Cheating is term used by manipulative people who are insecure in where they are and dont want change. if partners took care of each other woudl cheating be a problem. If peopel were secure and not closed minded woudl it be an issue. Should a partnership be a life sentence.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'SWEETIEPIE2010' Rather than risk a cheating senario we communicated and did whatever we needed to do and worked how ever hard we needed to work on a solution. I don't see that a lot. I don't hear that a lot. All i keep hearing is excusesthe communication that you and your partner obviously share is a rare thing. There are many people out there who just cannot communicate like that. I can imagine what the reacion would be if most couples decided that they would tell thier partner that their sex life was boring and would it be okay if we played with others. The fall out would rival that of Hiroshima.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Sweetie. You may just restore my jaded outlook on relationships yet........
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'firekiwi'Cheating is term used by manipulative people who are insecure in where they are and dont want change. I think that's a bit strong and blames the victims to some extent. Relationships require the negotiation of a certain set of rules, and deciding whether fidelity is important is usually one of the first ones sorted out. If one partner breaks the rules, the other surely does have a right to feel let down. As @Sweetiepie notes, the rules can change during a relationship, but she admits that it's a scary thing to do. It would require a very strong relationship.
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RHP User
14 years ago
couldn't agree more... firekiwi obviously slipped through the minimum IQ test it takes to be able to post here.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Snowshoe: Literally... I have for a very long time spoken of this exactly. However, it has always been thrown back at me with comments pertaining to me using it to justify my own means. ie: my desire to "Fck around" *grins* Possibly: however, I have taken the step and allow my partner to do her own flirting and "Fcking around" to.. So, therefore I am using it to justify my Voyeristic urges: Bulls*** !! I am about as banal and animal is a man is allowed to be in a moralistic society. I kill to eat, and do so regularly. I dont need fire to cook what I kill I dont need warmth for comfort, I dont need any of the modern conveniences this society seems to depend on. Sure I will use them when they are around. Cheating? If I do something I wouldnt want my lady to do behind my back, then I wont do it. And I ask her the same.. she Giggles.... and says.. but, I am allowed to fck other ppl... you are not.. :) She compensates this by bringing "Toys" home every now and again when she wants to pick them up. Bottom line? Too hard a question: because there are TOO many variables when we are dealing with other persons perceptions on cheating - this can only be declared between yourself and your partner. *smiles*
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RHP User
14 years ago
Firekiwi is PART right. If couples did look after each other cheating would not be an issue. If people were not close minded it would not be an issue. There are people who do want the marriage but not the intimacy side of things and they see nothing wrong in expecting thier partner to go without sex. Some, no...most...would NOT be open to negotiations and certainly would not understand if the other partner walked. This happens alot to many women approaching menopause. It is just not really about control. Yes some people will willingly with hold sex as a form of control but cheating is not about control. It is usually about needs, wants or desires....sexual
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RHP User
14 years ago
This thread is running off on such bizarre, nonsensical argumentative tangents that it's making my head spin. FireKiwi isn't even part right, Sweetiepie and Irishozzie called that the way it is. A vital aspect of couples looking after each other is NOT cheating. Trust and respect are critical to any relationship. As are communication and intimacy. What actions constitute cheating are obviously different for every couple, but inherent in it is always a betrayal of trust and a lack of respect. It's really not rocket science, people.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Every relationship has rules covering a whole raft of activities, behaviours, attitudes, etc., and these include sex and intimacy. These rules can be both implicit and explicit. Fundamentally, cheating is about breaking the rules to gain some real or perceived personal advantage. What is being missed in this discussion is the issue of fairness, rather than morality which most have focussed on. Who is to say that the partner who has been cheated on would not have allowed the sex/intimacy outside the relationship - or in fact would not have indulged in similar behaviour - had an explicit arrangement been agreed beforehand and made mutually applicable? In other words, what is good for the goose should also be good for the gander.
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RHP User
14 years ago
I have not commented on many forums...(I like to watch) You need to have a bed delivered to your ex. No need to include intructions on how to make it...he has already done it! Just a note to let him know, he has made his bed, now it is time to sleep in it!!!!!!! This is a man who has knowingly cheated on you, by your own admission he has abused you verbally and physically, abandonded his children, etc. Now his little piece of trash fling has cheated on him and he is crying to you?????????? Send him a bed and tell him to grow a set of balls. The only conversations you should be having are with your respective lawyers.
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RHP User
14 years ago
we just want to say to all those who defend any aspect of cheating...... that we are so very pleased that we don't know you.
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RHP User
14 years ago
It occurred to me this morning that cheating might be only partly about sex. Just as rape is about power more than sex, might cheating be about the thrill, with sex being the bonus? Might lying be one of the benefits of cheating rather than one of the inconveniences of it? Can one make a mundane relationship more exciting by injecting risk and danger into it?We use sex for all sorts of things - affirmation to ourselves of our attraction to others, power, status, money, control, escape, and of course recreation. Might we use cheating in a relationship as we use chilli in a dish? It's deadly on its own, but rounds out the other flavours nicely when used with care. Many people seem to cheat without experiencing any guilt - is this because they see their cheating as working toward a good relationship rather than against it?
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RHP User
14 years ago
I believe that cheating is a physical thing.. If you are physically doing sexual things with another person and your partner doesnt know then that would be cheating. If you can discuss it with your partner and they are ok with it then lucky you :D When it comes to the emotional side of things i dont think you can emotionally cheat on someone. Every person can love more than one person. You can be in love with your partner, but you can love another man/woman becoz of how they make you feel, you can love the mother or father of your child even if your not with them. Realistically sex can just be sex without emotion attatched and if your partner is ok with it then thats awesome but i think its a bit unfair if your partner doesnt know about your antics. Yes there are all different levels of cheating but if your unsure about where that line stands in your relationship is it really that hard to ask your partner? But anyways thats just what i think :D
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RHP User
14 years ago
People are very quick to apply the label to another person's situation but they are really just putting themselves in that position to make a value judgment derived from their own life experiences.... ... and that's quite innapropriate.Therefore I consider that the following guideline is quite useful... It's cheating when your partner feels cheated. Otherwise, I say go for it open slather because all those judgmental bitches out there can just fuck off back to church.HugsStalky
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Letsgetcrazy09
14 years ago
So many scenarios, so many interpretations, and still they mount up.It has been interesting reading the arguments as to when, where, whether it is cheating and are amused by some of the comments. Some have been well thought through and others....well....no real thought what so ever really.For those that have been able to come to terms and sit down with their partners and devise a set of rules that work for you, I commend you. In fact it is possibly people like you that should sit down and write a book together on how to overcome the slump of sexual desire in a relationship. I'm sure it would sell well. Whether it would assist others, I don't know.Relationships are at times very tenuous. People grow together and can just as easily grow apart in various ways. It does not necessarily mean that that relationship will fall apart. Yes we all need to communicate to each other and this is the only way that a relationship will stay together. All aspects of a relationship do not have to be in full unison for a relationship to succeed. In saying that, to classify all cheating as "not on" can be overlooking one flaw in the argument.... is the "cheating" acceptable. Some would say that by coming to an arrangement within the relationship to have other partners then makes their sexual encounters acceptable and is not cheating. Could not that same argument therefor be applied to a relationship whereby one partner says to the other "go and get it elsewhere, because your not getting it here". The people that this occurs to might just go and get "it" elsewhere. The person who told them may not necessarily want to know the full details or any details of the fact that they are getting it elsewhere but have by telling the person to do so, accepted that they might just do that. It becomes a situation where the party that did the telling doesn't want to have sex or only want sex occasionally not wanting to know about what happens but has sanctioned the act itself. All other aspects of the relationship might be fine. The big problem here is that when the party that has told the other to seek services elsewhere may very well care if they find out that offer was taken up.So to define cheating is a difficult task, in fact the permutations of factor influencing the term cheating is mind boggling to say the least. To some it will be cheating, to others it wont, and to others the lines are very fuzzy. All the while we focus cheating mostly being about sex, but as has been seen in this forum, is that cheating is not only about sex, it is about the interaction of people with people that is not in accordance with agreed or perceived guidelines. These guidelines may be unspoken but "known values".........yes any wonder we have difficulty in coming up with a definition.JMOLets
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RHP User
14 years ago
Ignorance is bliss! If you dont know your partner is having an extra-marital affair, you dont feel cheated ergo it is not cheating? Love it Stalky. Where have you been?
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RHP User
14 years ago
it depends on the person and their feelings..we all have things we will and wont put up with, our partners know that from the start, so if that line is crossed the person knows they have crossed it and they know they have done wrong, thats when hiding it and lying comes into the situation and thats when trust and honesty are broken and relationships end personally i might maybe forgive a one night stand...but id never ever forgive the fact he lied about it and tried to hide it...to me trust and honesty are the biggest things in a relationship, you brake them, your out GT sweety get call waiting and dont answer the phone to that man...your ex is getting exactly what he deserves...by the way i LOVE that pic xx roxxy
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RHP User
14 years ago
I have a wife who decided one day what boudaries we should have No negotiation No discussion just here is thats how it is. I am not that unhappy with most aspects of our life together but there are things i love about things like oral sex or just showering together or cuddling naked together. All things she wont be apart of. Do i walk away and go throught the hassle of a break up and divorce the effect on the kids and people around me or do i keep the peace and be miserable. When the boundaries are set by both people and aggreed to that is one thing but when starts dictating to the other thats another. Or do i find some fun on the side and try to stay grounded an reasonably happy and sane. I know people say just walk away If only it were that easy.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Ignorance is bliss! If you dont know your partner is having an extra-marital affair, you dont feel cheated ergo it is not cheating? Love it Stalky. Where have you been? But your twist on my thesis, albeit without so much poetic license is just as good a take on it. We ought be considerate to our partner's feelings. That's the most important thing in the world isn't it? Relationships through the life of man have held together on the strength of knowing when to turn a blind eye. Jeese... DNA testing to work out who really is your father is a very modern concept.... it will take some time for the rest of us for our morals to catch up to the science!HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Ignorance is bliss! If you dont know your partner is having an extra-marital affair, you dont feel cheated ergo it is not cheating? No, I don't buy that at all. The cheating occurs when the breach of trust happens - the ramifications occur when you get caught. They're very different things.
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RHP User
14 years ago
... For being a succinct voice of reason and firekiwi, quit your goddamned insipid self-justifying whinging, be a man, grow a pair and be a part of defining the rules of your relationship! Sheesh!
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RHP User
14 years ago
DH: ha ha.. Good one! reminded me of a comment a lady friend said to a group of her associates... "FFS! go cry a river: Build a fckn bridge over it, then throw yourself off it please" this topic is "Going off" eh :)
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'firekiwi' I have a wife who decided one day what boudaries we should have No negotiation No discussion just here is thats how it is. I am not that unhappy with most aspects of our life together but there are things i love about things like oral sex or just showering together or cuddling naked together. All things she wont be apart of. So she changed the rules to exclude things that had previously been okay? I don't think that's a control issue - it seems more like just an indication of a waning interest in sex generally. Perhaps a menopause issue? (Please don't attack ladies - I'm asking, not stating.) It sounds as though she could have handled it better - maybe putting her foot down over oral, but cutting you some slack over cuddling and showering. You need to talk...
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'Snowshoe' No, I don't buy that at all. The cheating occurs when the breach of trust happens - the ramifications occur when you get caught. They're very different things. The problem with your take on it is that there is no definitive universal for the event which constitutes "a breach of trust". For some people, learning that their partner is masturbating, well that's obviously cheating.. he has to get his jollies from me.... watching porno's.. how can he look at other women like that.. cheating.. flirt with the waiter, cheating.. take a few calls from an old gf.. cheating.. stick his finger in my neighbour's arse.. cheating. I mean, for many couples all of those matters mentioned are above board... but where people draw a line is completely arbitrary and emotive.The breach of trust angle provides no certainty at all to this debate because that can only be ascertained by recognition of the "feelings" of the person afflicted... therein lies the rub.... the only acceptable solution is to live your life and try not hurt your lover's feelings... whatever it is you do.. Hence... my simple relationship observation of "what you don't now can't hurt you" has held my lover and I in good stead for 25+ years. How far you take that advice, and how you utilise that undeniable truth in your relationship is up to you. HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
Like all the in and out of the conversation flow but the most that is being repeated is,its only cheating if you lie and if you are man or woman enough to admit to cheating thats not lying although each to their own(lifes)
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Letsgetcrazy09
14 years ago
Once again Stalky you have excelled yourself. Your initial post was straight to the point and told it how it works in real life....your second post has expanded on that and added examples for those that need pictures ....... BRAVOLets
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'stalky'The breach of trust angle provides no certainty at all to this debate because that can only be ascertained by recognition of the "feelings" of the person afflicted... therein lies the rub.... the only acceptable solution is to live your life and try not hurt your lover's feelings... whatever it is you do.. Hence... my simple relationship observation of "what you don't now can't hurt you" has held my lover and I in good stead for 25+ years. Would you feel the same way if you discovered that she'd refinanced the house five years ago and put the money in a dubious investment without telling you?To me, a relationship isn't just about not hurting the other's feelings, it's about not doing anything that would hurt their feelings. Irrespective of whether she knows or not, do you regard what you do as cheating on her? If so, you know the definition for your relationship, as most people would know for their own relationships. The fact that you don't tell her what you get up to suggests that she would be hurt. Just because she doesn't know so isn't hurt, it doesn't mean that it's not something that she'd resent.I hope that doesn't sound overly moralistic or judgemental - I've played with married women and have a clear conscience and no disrespect for them for what they do. We all make our own choices...
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RHP User
14 years ago
What started out as a call for opinions about what is considered "cheating" has turned into what I would call an "us against them" debate....'us' being the judgemental right and "them" being the accused. Clearly sweetiepie you have an extraordinary relationship that you work hard at maintaining. And good for you! Stalky clearly has the same. But for a lot of folks, speaking freely within their relationship comes at a price. Why? because the status quo is being rocked because one person's mind is open to exploring the world, the other has no idea what they are going on about! Cheating doesn't always lead to relationship breakdown. I acknowledge that cheating maybe a contributory factor, but there are plenty of divorces out there that happen because people grow apart and not together. Whether they cheat or not. I can understand people who have craved a lost intimacy only to find themselves seeking the solution in someone else. Someone available. They perhaps didn't intend to cheat - they wanted to fix the horniness, or ignite the romance or whatever. Does it make it right? Does the end justify the means? Nooooo. Need to look at the deeper more complex issues of a relationship - and well, only the people in the relationship really know whats going on. It's so much easier to explain in a dying relationship that "he/she cheated on me". So much easier to lay blame. I would like to think that this forum is a safe place for people to comment, reflect, think and grow with other like minded people. But I don't know if this forum is for the free thinker....I mean how many people out there who are reading, dare write their truth for fear of being judged by the "popular group?". I'm not a fan of the cheating spectrum, and it is a spectrum of intent, but I at least try to understand where people are coming from. Feeling the lurve Respectfully yours.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Morticiaa I agree. The forum should be a place for any one of us to write what we think without retaliation.What is right for one is not right for another and we should all be adult enough to understand that. There is no one size fits all when it comes to relationships or relationship issues. However, spirited debate does not mean that others are putting you down. So far in this thread I have not seen anyone trying overly hard to force thier opinions on others. Stalky what you dont know, cant hurt you..........too true. It only hurts when you actually become aware of it.
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'fionabee' Morticiaa I agree. The forum should be a place for any one of us to write what we think without retaliation.What is right for one is not right for another and we should all be adult enough to understand that. There is no one size fits all when it comes to relationships or relationship issues. However, spirited debate does not mean that others are putting you down. So far in this thread I have not seen anyone trying overly hard to force thier opinions on others.I agree - this has been an emotive thread, but I think it's been very civilised, with people for the most part going to some lengths to keep their opinions from looking like personal attacks. As long as it stays like that, everyone benefits from diversity of opinions, so I'd hope everyone would feel free to jump in even if they don't match the popular view. I spent 22 years in a monogamous relationship but am not against cheating, so I've certainly been learning from this thread.
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RHP User
14 years ago
A guy makes a few simple observations and people come out shooting form the hip . Well I expect no less. However, I am very attracted to the rational level headed comments from Morticiaaa. Feeling the lurve there bebe.Also I'm not sure that any rational minded person sets out to cheat on their partner. I say "rational minded" knowing that I have met people who are going for a little bit of the old "I'll show him" as spiteful retribution for some misdemeanre. lol... I've also met people who want to get caught cheating... and on the other end of the spectrum people to whom being caught would be devastating and life threatening. I doubt that cheating is ever about "right" or "wrong"... I think it just happens as part of the human condition. I think that all the self satisfying excuses come later... and even though those are often pretty lame... oh "I had too much to drink".. that's a girly response for instance.. or "she won't blow me"... for the boys... those excuses are made for the cheater to feel better about the situation themselves... Maybe the "hurt" comes down to relationship expectations. For example, I expect my lover to avoid causing me an emotional injury. That's not an unreasonable expectation. Frankly, if that requires a little bit of Hear no evil, see no evil, and speak no evil on my part, then that's a small price to pay for a life filled with loving affection. Superficially, I can recognise that I am married to an angel.. but I didn't set out to marry a saint. Frankly, it's a simple reality that wicked and imaginative minds.... sometimes get themselves into trouble. hehe. I wouldn't want it any other way. Even though you may be married or paired up, we are all still individuals... a couple... means two... it's trite to say that it is quite different than ... umm... one. I've never met a single minded couple. That's what makes a life journey challenging, interesting, enticing, worthy. A relationship can be as complicated or as simple as two (or more) people choose to make it. Cheating need not mean the end of a relationship. However, if discovered in your relationship, it ought to make you question your expectations. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes, sweetiepie? That shit works two ways.HugsStalky
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RHP User
14 years ago
Quoting 'stalky' Frankly, it's a simple reality that wicked and imaginative minds.... sometimes get themselves into trouble. hehe. I wouldn't want it any other way. You make some eloquent and well reasoned points about why it's valid to cover up extramarital sex and why people engage in it. I agree with a lot of them - I believe that monogamy may not be a natural state for humans and (without drawing any parallels) some people may be genetically predisposed to cheat, just as some people are predisposed to alcoholism.You dance around a couple of issues that I believe that you're very qualified to answer though. Is what you do cheating? If so, in keeping with the title of the thread, when did it become cheating? I have no interest in judging you - I'm just asking questions that I see as fundamental to the debate.
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